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willthiswork89
07-19-2006, 02:45 AM
i was thikning about going to fullsail for college because before i did this i said ide love to go for game programming or computer science.... but now to see my programming to real life things like actually see if move in real life i think ive changed my career choice... im sure it will happen once or twice more but anyways... my question is what type of college or major do you have to take to do things like the boebot or building an xbox or RCplane... and type of money do people make that have these jobs? thans for the help guys... not sure if its in the right section or not sorry if it isnt!

Kevin Wood
07-19-2006, 03:13 AM
You should probably consider an engineering or research orienteed school, or a strong engineering or science program at a liberal arts school.

Here are some majors to consider:
Mechanical Engineering
Mechanical Engineering Technology
Electrical/Electronics Engineering
Electrical/Electronics Engineering Technology
Physics
Engineering Physics
Mathematics

willthiswork89
07-19-2006, 03:21 AM
well what i want to do is be the person to either look over or build circuits like.... maybe a motherboard for a computer or maybe an xbox....

John R.
07-19-2006, 03:30 AM
That would be Electrical/Electronics Engineering.

I would also suggest working on your communication skills, especially if you want to be "the person to look over" http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

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John R.

8 + 8 = 10

willthiswork89
07-19-2006, 03:32 AM
haha yes that part comes in time but ill get there.. does anyone know a rough estimate on what these type of jobs pay? and what colleges are credible with AVERAGE gpas lolo (around a 2.8-3.2 highschool GPA)

Kevin Wood
07-19-2006, 04:16 AM
Actually, like most things in life, the communication skills come with effort...

Do you want to know how to design a motherboard, or assemble a motherboard?

When you say look over, do you mean analyse/inspect, or manage/oversee?

The point here about communication skills is that you "fight the way you train."

As for payscale, I suggest that you not concern yourself with that issue until your job interview is approaching. Today's wages won't make a difference by then. FWIW, you can find this info online with a little bit of effort.

Colleges look at several factors beyond GPA. You might want to discuss some of these factors with your current teachers and guidance counselors.

goldfingerfif
07-19-2006, 04:47 AM
I think they pay around 1 Million dollars! I mean 100 Billion Dollars!!! http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

http://www.ctgilles.net/images/pictars/dr.evil_one_miliion_dollars.jpg

willthiswork89
07-19-2006, 05:03 AM
Kevin Wood said...
Actually, like most things in life, the communication skills come with effort...

Do you want to know how to design a motherboard, or assemble a motherboard?

When you say look over, do you mean analyse/inspect, or manage/oversee?

The point here about communication skills is that you "fight the way you train."

As for payscale, I suggest that you not concern yourself with that issue until your job interview is approaching. Today's wages won't make a difference by then. FWIW, you can find this info online with a little bit of effort.

Colleges look at several factors beyond GPA. You might want to discuss some of these factors with your current teachers and guidance counselors.
well as for the designing or assembling either would be alright probably more into assembling because my creativity isnt very intact graphics wise but i can put my knowledge down through my hands just not a pencil!, as for look over i mean later on after ive did the (expletive) job of assembling and what not ide like to be the person that sits i nthe office does paper work and has people come to me and say "why isnt this working ive attached the blahblah to the blah blah" then i say well you forgot to connect the header into the pass or some nonsense like that. basically a manager over the whole set.

John R.
07-19-2006, 05:03 AM
willthiswork89 said...
haha yes that part comes in time but ill get there.. does anyone know a rough estimate on what these type of jobs pay? and what colleges are credible with AVERAGE gpas lolo (around a 2.8-3.2 highschool GPA)

Well, at least you recognize areas that need work (the first step), and have shown that your shift keys do work.

As for pay, besides all the other things mentioned, where you live in the country makes a BIG difference, and where you think you want to live should also figure into the equation.

Take a job in the "middle of nowhere", and you might only see $40 - 60K starting.· Get the same job in a "hot spot" and you might double that.· You might also find that you have more "buying power" in terms of "real" things like groceries and housing with the lower paying job.

You choices for advanced schooling are also dependent on where you live (or are willing to live) while going to school.· They range from online schools to full fledged universities.· Getting into most "state colleges" shouldn't be a problem with "average grades".· Getting into MIT would probably not be a long shot.

You can also start out at a "two year" college, and demonstrate your ability to make your way at that level, and then "move up" to a four year school.


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John R.

8 + 8 = 10

willthiswork89
07-19-2006, 06:08 AM
Okay so if i take a 2 year coarse what type of degree will that get me? Im willing to live anywhere for school but plan on living around northcarolina or somthing around that area once done with school. I planned on working for a while get my life on track then going back to school for my masters or what ever the next level the four year coarse will get me.

Kevin Wood
07-19-2006, 08:34 AM
Are you still in school now. or have you already finished? If you are still in school, you should really talk to a guidance counselor, teacher, principal, etc. that can help you to understand the transition from high school to college. There are a lot of decisions to make and things to consider.

If you have finished school already, you could talk to an educational advisor at a local community college, or state-funded school, to get some general information on the process.

In a 2-yr program, you will typically receive an associate degree. The good thing about 2-year programs is that they will usually save you some money. The bad thing is that you may have trouble transferring your credits to some 4-yr programs. So if you do attend a 2-yr program, try to find one that has a transfer agreement with a 4-yr school that you can continue with.

A master's degree would require an additional 1-3 years beyond your bachelor's (4-yr) degree.

Also, typically speaking, it's easier to complete your degree program if you just keep at it with no major breaks. Once you leave school and start accumulating responsibilities, you'll find it considerably more difficult to drop everything and go back.

Chris Savage
07-19-2006, 12:35 PM
This thread is being moved from the·BASIC Stamp·Forum to the·Sandbox Forum.

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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
csavage@parallax.com (mailto:csavage@parallax.com)

willthiswork89
07-19-2006, 12:44 PM
im in 11th grade this year and im starting to be able to apply at colleges and what not so i guess ill talk to a councilor about that or somthing! thanks for everyones help!

Ryan Clarke
07-20-2006, 05:23 AM
Never select a major based on pay scale. Study something that you enjoy. You must love what you do, or life is a punishment.

Think, what would you do if money was no object? Try to find a way to do that as a career (don't go watch Clerks until after you decide) ;)

Ryan

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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support

RClarke@Parallax.com (mailto:RClarke@Parallax.com)

Robert@HCC
07-20-2006, 08:00 PM
Ryan Clarke said...
Never select a major based on pay scale. Study something that you enjoy. You must love what you do, or life is a punishment.

Think, what would you do if money was no object? Try to find a way to do that as a career (don't go watch Clerks until after you decide) ;)

Ryan



^ That is probably the best advice anyone could ever give you.

I've worked as a pro cook for 20 years - loved it for awhile, then slowly realized I hated the job. Now I am attending college at 44 to earn a degree in Electronics, because I truly love working with electronics. Its a fascinating field, IMO - and one that I feel will continue to challenge me in ways that cooking no longer can.

Whatever you do, go into it with the idea of 100+% effort, or dont waste your time - because you will never make it through a 2 year program, much less on to a bach. or masters. Make sure its what makes you happy, because it is going to take you an IMMENSE amount of work and discipline to finish the schooling.

Not even making the effort to communicate effectively with proper grammar does not bode well for you :D
but I wish you good luck at whatever you choose to do!

Alohas,
Robert

willthiswork89
07-20-2006, 11:35 PM
thanks everyone, like i said i truelly loved doing c++ and programming i was like man what an awesome career this would be.... but ive always said that if i could take my programming and shove it into real life it would be even more fun and like robert said theres always somthing new to learn, of course im still young i might change what i want to do for the 3495672089 hours of labor im going to have to do in my life but it cant harm looking into it, i talked to a freind who went to college and he said to make sure i goto a state accreddited school so that my credits will easily transfer over so i dont have to take prereqs all over again. As all of you know junior year is when you start applying for colleges so again if anyone knows some decent colleges that dont take harvard GPA's please tell me!

Tom Walker
07-21-2006, 02:50 AM
wil...89,
Also, keep in mind that more and more community colleges are partnering up with local universities to offer "transfer degrees" in which you can get youre core courses (and sometimes a full Associate Degree) via the local community college (or associated University Center) with a guarantee of being able to transfer all of your credits to the sponsor university for your Bachelor's Degree completion. This has the advantage that the first two years are local and tend to be quite a bit more inexpensive (important when you are first starting "college life"), without the need for housing and there is often available state money (education lottery funding seems to be getting more popular)...and community colleges quite often seem to offer education that is closer to "real life"...

Good Luck!

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Truly Understand the Fundamentals and the Path will be so much easier...

Beau Schwabe (Parallax)
07-21-2006, 03:12 AM
willthiswork89,

Depending on where you are in the US, you might also consider applying for an intern position at a company in your area
that does something of interest to you in this field. It may not pay much if anything, but what you learn in the process is
priceless and it is a way to get your feet wet if by chance you decide that this type of work is not cut out for you.

Most of all, have patience....In most cases you simply can not start out at a managers position and/or salary. You must put
forth the effort and earn your way there.

Good luck

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Beau Schwabe (mailto:bschwabe@parallax.com)

IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.

willthiswork89
07-21-2006, 06:01 AM
im in ohio and i hear you can get internships but i dunno ill have to possibly find a company with this sort of technology

willthiswork89
07-21-2006, 06:19 AM
ITT Tech has a Electronics Engineering Technology Associates degree but i dunno if they have a transfer program? also what is the difference between

Electronics Engineering and
Electronics Engineering TechNology?

Kevin Wood
07-21-2006, 11:01 AM
Engineering programs usually focus more on theoretical design, so you might do a lot of computer simulations and number crunching. They are calculus based.

Engineering technology programs are more of a mixture of design and hands-on work. Some may use calculus, but usually they aren't calculus based.

In a small company, such as Parallax, you might find a lot of overlap between the two positions. Generally speaking, an engineer might design a widget on paper, and hand it over to the engineering technician for building, testing, etc. The technician has to have enough theory to interact with the engineer, but doesn't need to know all of the in-depth specs of the circuit that the engineer needs to know.

Engineering technology tends to get a bad rap, and is sometimes looked down upon. But it has a different emphasis, so you have to look at it objectively.

here are a couple of links to Rochester Institute of Technology, which has 5-year programs (includes co-op) in both electrical engineering & electrical engineering technology. Reading the sites and downloading the info should help you to see the differences. I'm also including the list of all programs, because you might find something that sounds better.

RIT EE: www.ee.rit.edu/ (http://www.ee.rit.edu/)
RIT EET: www.rit.edu/~706www/ (http://www.rit.edu/~706www/)
RIT List of Undergrad Programs: www.rit.edu/old/programs-ugrad.html (http://www.rit.edu/old/programs-ugrad.html)

Of course, there are other schools, but you have to start looking somewhere.

willthiswork89
07-21-2006, 11:20 AM
alright so is electrical engineering the same as electronic engineering? i want to be the one to physically sit and Make the remote control for the new system that comes out and be the one to phydsically make the things not draw them up

Mike Green
07-21-2006, 12:04 PM
A lot depends on the environment you hope to work in. As Kevin mentioned, there's a lot of overlap between Engineering and Engineering technology and, the smaller the company, the more overlap there is. In a small company, the person who does the work is the one who can do it and has or can make the time. In larger companies, the work tends to be more stratified and based on title and formal training.

Paul Baker
07-22-2006, 02:45 AM
WillThisWork,

I am having a little difficulty understanding precisely what your are aiming for, its clear you want do electonic assembly. Do you want to understand what you are assembling? Do you want to have a hand in it's design? Or do you just want to sit there attaching part A to board B?

If you only want to assemble, there are vocational programs that will teach you what you need to know, but you won't be taught the theoretical concepts behind it. The problem with this direction is there isn't a large gowth path, and it can be difficult to advance beyond the status of "grunt", unless you are a supervisor of grunts.

Going to a university and getting a bachelors in EET (Electrical Engineer Technology) will provide you a path to management of large teams, though you could still do assembly.

If you want top go the theoretical route and are intersted in embedded design I would suggest getting a bachelors in ECE (Electrical Computer Engineering), this is a hybrid of a CIS (Computer Information Sciences, ie programming) and EE (Electrical Engineering, ie hardware), and gives a balanced approach to the software/hardware issue. For traditional circuit design straight EE is fine.

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Kevin Wood
07-22-2006, 03:34 AM
All engineering disciplines have their sub-disciplines, but when you see electrical vs. electronic engineering mentioned, the diference is in the degree of specialization.

It's kind of like an electrician vs. electronics technician. You wouldn't expect an electrician to fix your tv, or your tv-repairman to wire your house. But both are working on electrical circuits.

At this point, the best thing you could do is to read the descriptions of the electrical & electronics related programs on the sites that I pointed out. From your posting about school, it's apparent that you want to keep moving forward in your education. From other postings that you made, asking for project ideas, you show some form of initiative in learning. This is great, because here is something that's better to learn sooner rather than later... nobody can learn for you.

If you want to have a successful college experience, and especially to work in engineering, you will have to learn how to do research and find your own answers to your questions, to the extent possible. You should, at this point in this thread, be able to find these answers, and tell us what the differences are.

If your research skills are weak, or you have trouble applying them, then practice those skills now, before you get to college. If you aren't being taught those skills in your school, print out the complete text of this thread, show it to your school officials, and ask them why you aren't being taught these skills. But if you are being taught these skills, but simply aren't applying them, then we really can't do much for you here.

Shawn Lowe
07-22-2006, 03:58 AM
Be aware, if you go to either the EET or the EE path, your going to have to take calculus either way. So I hope you like math! If you decide on being a technician, you won't have to do the Calculus but you'll have to know the same electronics theory as an engineer.
Monetarily(?), EE's typically make more 'out of the gate' than EET's, but don't get their hands dirty as much, which is part of the fun if you ask me!

So I guess, bottom line, start taking Physics and Math classes that are college level, and if you don't go into the field, the classes will at least help you understand anything else you go into!

MHO

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Shawn Lowe


My last words shall be - "NOT YET!!!"

willthiswork89
07-22-2006, 08:35 AM
wait i was under the assumtion that EET's DRAW the schematics where as the EE physically builds the product.

PJ Allen
07-22-2006, 09:19 AM
· A BSEE is an Engineer who has more math than a BSEET.· A BSEET is a trade-school product.· Some BSEETs start out as technicians (field service engineers, etc.)·
· There many more ads for Engineers than for Technicians.· Technicians aren't Bacelor's Degree at all.· They don't promote you from Technician to Engineer without the Degree (and forget about that Associate stuff, ASEE/ASEET, it just means you hit the wall.)·
· "Technicianing" isn't a growing field, it's a dying one.· It's not 1975.

· There aren't any graduate programs in EE; you can't, so far as I know, get an MSEE (or MSEET) or a PhD in EE.· I think the only continuation is in Physics.

Post Edited (PJ Allen) : 7/22/2006 2:45:18 AM GMT

Nate
07-22-2006, 06:02 PM
"There aren't any graduate programs in EE; you can't, so far as I know, get an MSEE (or MSEET) or a PhD in EE.· I think the only continuation is in Physics."

You can indeed get a MSEE·and a PhDEE (Although it does sound a little strange, a "Doctor of Philosophy in Electrical Engineering").·



Nate<!-- Edit -->

tommyc
07-22-2006, 11:42 PM
In many companies, the flexibility of job functions is downward only.· For example, an EE can perform the work of an EET, an BSEET can perform the work of a ASEET grad, but not vice versa.· You may want to find out about professional engineering licensure in·your state.·

There are MANY graduate·programs in electrical and electronic engineering.

I suggest that you choose an education that will provide you with maximum flexibility·and allow you to adapt to changing job markets and personal preferences in the future.··One way to do this is to pursue a BSEE from an ABET accredited school.· With a BSEE degree, you are able to do just about anything in the electrical/electronics field (with proper specilization).· A program that begins with 2 years at a tech. school followed by 2 years at a larger school is a great way to minimize costs, but you may sacrifice some of the "college experience" that is also important.

Good luck, and have fun!

-tc



·

steve_b
07-23-2006, 12:28 AM
I'm an Electronic Engineering Technologist.
I had originally started in the Electronic Technician program but realized it'd be more of a 'dirty' job than I wanted. Plus, it was easy....one of the instructors told me to move up to the Technologist program (and that I'd guarantee myself a $15k increase in wages in the end)....so I did.
Now, I'm no math genious....I had to work my arse off in math class. Calculus wasn't as intense as university, but it was more than I cared. Granted, I've only used it a couple of times since (whew).

So my program started out mixed: Electrical/Electronic/Computer Engineering Technologists with co-op. You'd do the first 3terms all together learning the same stuff (some electrical/electronic/computer skills) and then you'd move in to your specialty. To note: 300students started and only 120 graduated (with only 7in electrical)...for various reasons people dropped out or failed (too much time in the pub!?). DON'T BE ONE OF THESE...IT JUST WASTES MONEY AND TIME!

Now, the technician is mostly the hands...doing the physical task at hand and reporting back.
The engineer comes up with the idea on paper and delivers it onwards.
The technologist has both engineering skills and technician skills (neither in the same quantity though) and is able to be the middle man to some degree.

I think the best thing I did was to get a mentor. One of my high school teachers had taken the same course. I had a few long chats with him and my fears (mostly of math) were calmed and I went for it. It's also good to build a good rapport with some fellow students and teachers at the college/university....good support groups are hard to find!

Currently I'm working for the Canadian gov't on Weather Radars. There's not many occasions where I can tear apart a circuit and troubleshoot it as most things are black box/off the shelf types of gear (on the rare instance we'll have to fix a 30year old widget and that's where the crash course comes in).
Now, I work with an engineer....a smarter man I've not met. I'm doing more of a technician job, but the position requirement was to have more skills than just connecting wires and such. I do CAD drawings and I dig holes for concrete....it's a great job and I'm well paid.

if you have the chance to interact with any electronic places, I'd suggest doing that. Volunteer....do a co-op from high school with one. You may find that most places farm out their assembly work as it is cheaper than having the gear 'in-house'...so you might not find that assembly job you're after.
To be a manager (that has a clue!), you'd be from the ranks! So, you'd have worked in the trenches doing the work of the guys you want to manage. So, do well in school and take some "people person" skills classes or business classes as they are available. I'm hoping to get a cushy desk job for my last 10 years before retirement....20years to go!

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·

Steve

"Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."

Paul Baker
07-25-2006, 04:29 AM
PJ, I have a MSEE, I had the choice of going MSEE, MSCE or MACE (all ABET qualified). MSEE is the most recognized degree in the field, so I chose that one, the variation of all three was mostly trivial with totals of required coursework and independent study being slightly different.

BTW, MSEE is Master of Science in·Electrical Engineering which is a full graduate studies degree requiring the completion of two areas of focus (mine were analog and signal processing to contrast the digital background of my Bachelors). The difference between an "Arts" and "Science" degree disappear at the graduate level (at least at the university I attended).

WillThisWork,

I suggest getting whatever degree your mind and finances will allow, as others have mentioned getting a lesser degree now doesn't really help with getting a better degree later (unless you are talking about a bachelors then a graduate degree). If you have a Bachelor's degree in EE, you stand a chance of getting a job geared for an ASEE or ASEET, the reverse is not possible. You are still young, it's best to leave as many avenues open to you as possible.

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Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 7/24/2006 9:42:55 PM GMT