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john_s
09-01-2011, 03:26 AM
When reading some older posts I frequently see schematics in ASCII format placed right between lines of text.
They all look to me kind of "squished" and hardly resembling any schematic at all.
I use MS Word and proportional font to "decipher" them but there must be an easier way.

What do you use to view them in correct shape and form directly onto the XP screen?

Thanks,
John

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
09-01-2011, 03:31 AM
Example link?

-Phil

john_s
09-01-2011, 03:40 AM
yes, for example here...

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?64718-Op-amp-help&highlight=LM10

see gif attached

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
09-01-2011, 04:07 AM
Okay, the <tt> </tt> means that the enclosed text is meant to be viewed with a monospaced font. You could copy the schematic text and paste it into Notepad, the Propeller IDE, or any editor that defaults to a monospaced font, like Courier or Parallax. Frankly, though, I find these ASCII schematics to be little more recognizable than hieroglyphics in any font.

-Phil

RDL2004
09-01-2011, 04:46 AM
Bitstream Vera Sans Mono is a really nice mono-spaced font for coding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitstream_Vera

john_s
09-01-2011, 05:32 AM
Phil,

I did CTR-C of the schematic and pasted it using CTR-V into Propeller Tool IDE... see the result.

Am I missing something obvious?84727

Heater.
09-01-2011, 05:38 AM
It might help to install the Parallax font to your system and ensure whatever editor you are using uses it.

john_s
09-01-2011, 05:54 AM
see the same ASCII pasted into Notepad this time and using Parallax font

Tracy Allen
09-01-2011, 06:09 AM
Oh my! that was my ascii schematic.

Here is a reconstruction:
84728
I don't recall what led to that thread, but the OP seems to have been working with a Texscan resistive pressure sensor and wanted a circuit to convert its varying resistance into an output voltage that could be read by the Stamp.

I agree that ascii schematics are, uhhhhhh, highly old school. Constructing them was/is tedious, kind of like building a schematic in the Spin font, which despite more options has similar drawbacks. These days a gif or png is a much better option to maintain its form. I think a learned a lot about the art of ascii schematics from a couple masters on the earlier Stamp forums where posting a gif might not even have been an option. Beau may have been one of those masters, I think.

john_s
09-01-2011, 06:47 AM
Thank you Tracy, it's your schematic indeed and I gave it just as an example.
Also, I understand that you used Mac to create those ASCII although that should NOT make any difference in viewing them.

My generic question was and still is - how to view the same aligned properly and without "distortions" using windows based PC and Firefox browser?
Or perhaps it's not possible at all since web browsers use whatever it pleases 'font'?

But then why cutting and pasting the same 'distorted' ASCII schematic into monospaced formated area of Notepad or other viewer still results in erratic picture as well?
Somehow the 'space' ascii characters are kind of compressed and not restored correctly during the CTR-C CTR-V operation...

I have hard time viewing ascii based schematics not only in Parallax archived posts, but also in some other yahoo... etc electronics user groups.
The other time I view them just fine (say Tony Endahl archive for example as he used old DOS style fonts to start with).
That's why I keep asking users of our forum for solution.

So far no luck, although I still hope that somebody may come with the right answer :-)

And yes, I tried monospaced fonts (Courier) in Notepad, MS Word, Propeller Tools IDE and such.

Beau Schwabe (Parallax)
09-01-2011, 06:48 AM
Tracy Allen,

"...Beau may have been one of those masters, I think..." - Thanks Tracy!.. I was told that a few times, but I never believed it. I was doing ASCII schematics at the age of 12 on BBS's


I tried loading some of those schematics, and was also having problems... seems like some of the the translation was lost when it was archived. If that's the case, that's really too bad. TAB's sometimes get stripped for spaces, and then in another pass, spaces get stripped from redundancy. which looks like what has happened.




LED1
// R1
o------------------|<----/\/\---o
| |
| o---< +5V
| R2 |
| o-------|<----/\/\---o
| | \\
| | LED2
| R3 C
In >--o--/\/\----B (2n3904)
E
|
|
GND

Heater.
09-01-2011, 07:31 AM
I always imagined that of all the bazillions of file formats for word processors, spread sheets, images, video, etc etc that have come and gone over the years we could trust in good old simple ASCII to preserve our data forever.
Sadly even that has proved not to be "safe".
All that ASCII art gone:(

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
09-01-2011, 03:34 PM
I think what happened is that the original archiving ignored the <tt> tags. When leading and multiple sequential spaces on a line are rendered in plain HTML, they're simply dropped, causing the collapse of symbols to the left margin that these schematics exhibit. Unfortunately, those spaces have long-since disappeared from the HTML source, so it's not possible to reconstruct those schematics automatically.

-Phil

john_s
09-01-2011, 03:35 PM
Tracy Allen,

"...Beau may have been one of those masters, I think..." - Thanks Tracy!..



LED1
// R1
o------------------|<----/\/\---o
| |
| o---< +5V
| R2 |
| o-------|<----/\/\---o
| | \\
| | LED2
| R3 C
In >--o--/\/\----B (2n3904)
E
|
|
GND

<TT>

Rf
;------/\/\--;
| |
Rs | |\ +5 |
;--/\/\-o--|-\ | |
| | \ |
| | >-----o---Vout
| | /
| Vr----|+/|
| |/ |
| |
'------o------o-------grnd Vss
grnd
</TT>



Even when cut-and-paste'd into the code window it still looks anemic with CHR(32) missing all over...

Tracy Allen
09-01-2011, 03:36 PM
It was you, Beau! Thank you, too.

John_s, I thought I might be able to reconstruct it easily simply by rendering it in a monospace font. But no, Archiver replaced all multiple spaces with a single space, aiii, even between <TT> tags, which in the original were there to preserve them. It has nothing to do with the Mac/PC issue. Reconstruction involved going down line by line and adding spaces in Courier font, kind of a puzzle with hints.

john_s
09-01-2011, 03:55 PM
Tracy, I kinda thought that there might be a 'magic' trick within browser setup to say "when viewing this HTML code go into an old DOS style viewer window to resurect missing spaces from old ASCII drwaings / schematics". I guess there's none and I was dreaming again:-)
Thanks anyways.

Beau Schwabe (Parallax)
09-01-2011, 04:34 PM
Looks like the translation was lost somewhere in the Yahoo e-groups...

here is an original link to the referenced archive above ...
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/messages/5110?xm=1&m=p&tidx=1

john_s
09-01-2011, 04:50 PM
Beau,

Thank you - that's exactly the link I was looking for!
Somehow the original monospaced format is still there and they keep the magic window open to old ASCII without compressing and/or loosing spaces...

John

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
09-01-2011, 04:57 PM
Somehow the original monospaced format is still there and they keep the magic window open to old ASCII without compressing and/or loosing spaces...
They do? This is what it looks like in my browser (Firefox/WinXP):

http://forums.parallax.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84747&d=1314896255

The spaces are missing from the HTML source, too.

-Phil

john_s
09-01-2011, 05:15 PM
Looks good in mine Firefox/WinXP

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
09-01-2011, 05:19 PM
That's bizarre! How did you get there? This is the page I ended up on by following the links:


http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/message/5122

-Phil

john_s
09-01-2011, 05:24 PM
Bizarre indeed! When I try your link it looks same as yours - ie wrong as well.
However mine was ok - try this...

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/messages/5110?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
09-01-2011, 05:31 PM
That works, but I don't know how you got there from Beau's link.

-Phil

john_s
09-01-2011, 05:43 PM
From original Beau's link I selected the 1st topic "OP AMP HELP"
Then click on "Expand Messages" and keep scrolling to read all posts.

That should do - let me know how it worked for you.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
09-01-2011, 05:52 PM
Got it! How odd that they would be formatted differently when you click on a particular message, as I did.

-Phil

john_s
09-01-2011, 06:00 PM
Without knowing it I kind of pressed the right button - pure coincidence... go figure.
I tried to figure it out by myself for as long as I remember, while it took just few hours here and we have the answer.

Thanks to all of you. I mark it as "SOLVED"

Tracy Allen
09-01-2011, 06:54 PM
Ahh! If only all the world's problems could be unraveled by pressing "expand messages".

At an earlier time the forum had been hosted on egroups, and then transferred (with hue and cry) over to Yahoo groups. I wonder how long all that material will remain there if it gets few hits? John_s, you were really digging deep!

john_s
09-01-2011, 07:41 PM
Tracy,

I still keep your older postings in separate folder(s) from '97 and such ...

Plus - I'd like to ask you few questions in regard to LM10 based circuit of yours 'really soon now' :-)

Thanks,
John

Tracy Allen
09-02-2011, 03:57 PM
That is certainly gratifying, John. Please do ask your questions in a new thread about the LM10 or its ilk in circuits. The LM10, despite being a vintage design from 1977, still has a unique combination of features that are not AFAIK equaled in any other op amp. A Robert Widlar original.

I have archives from when it was possible to subscribe to the forums via email, and the nice thing about those is that they are easy to smart-search in Mac mail. But I don't think they go back to 1997. I was using Eudora then, and those files got lost somewhere in transition between computers.

Beau Schwabe (Parallax)
09-02-2011, 04:12 PM
Tracy,

I have archives that pre date the Basic Stamp II, but seem to have a gap between 97 and 98. I was looking for the E-mail correspondence between Jeff Martin and myself that led to the automated ability to program the BS2 without having to disconnect the cable after programming ... anyone remember having to do that? ... the solution was later built into the BS2 module.

john_s
09-03-2011, 06:04 AM
Beau,

Was it in regard to the missing u1 capacitor in series with the DTR line - the one that Scott Edwards mentioned during his struggle with the data logger design?

I do remeber when my BS2 refused to work and kept resetting itself with serial cable connected to my pc. A quick phone call to Parallax saved the day when they suggested to disconnect the cable. Not only that, but a simple yet how much needed suggestion from Tracy to filter a reset line ATN with u1 and 10k in parallel behind that missing cap resolved another issue. I still use RS232 as a programming interface of my choice - kind of backward to what everybody else seems to be doing theses days.

John