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xanatos
08-29-2011, 06:16 PM
OK, probably a bit beyond the abilities of the Propeller, but I'm hoping one of you with astounding knowledge of such things can give me a pointer...

I need to generate two high frequency EM fields whose phases are shifted by only Planck Time. This means I need to generate an incredibly tiny phase variance between the fields... But those of you who know what Planck Time is already know that, so... my question is, what are the best methods for doing this? or do they exist yet?

Thanks,

Dave

Bean
08-29-2011, 06:23 PM
From what I found Planck Time = 10^-43 seconds.
Good luck with that...

Bean

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
08-29-2011, 06:23 PM
Simple: use a single output from the Propeller, split into two cables going two their respective antennas, one cable being 1.6 x 10-35 meters longer than the other. :)

-Phil

xanatos
08-29-2011, 06:28 PM
Phil... In simplicity is often beauty! LOL... Thanks.

Dave

mindrobots
08-29-2011, 06:28 PM
I have no clue (and never will) but according to Wikipedia:

"As of May 2010, the smallest time interval that was directly measured was on the order of 12 attoseconds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attoseconds) (12 10−18 seconds),[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time#cite_note-3) about 1024 times larger than the Planck time."

This could get interesting, so I'm going to pull up a chair and some popcorn and just watch.

[EDIT] In further reading, there was talk about simulating particle accelerators with as much energy as the entire universe and "often it is suggested that spacetime might have a discrete or foamy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam) structure at Planck length scale."

If you press f10 and the Universe blinks out........

Beau Schwabe
08-29-2011, 07:17 PM
Phil Pilgrim,

"...split into two cables going two their respective antennas, one cable being 1.6 x 10-35 meters longer than the other." ... You don't even need two cables... A single cable with two taps separated by the distance you provided.

Now if I can just find my ruler that's marked in yocto meters? Can I have 160 thousand yocto meters please?

Seriously, if we did have the technology (we might but ... ) the answer to this would likely be something along the order of a molecular ring-oscillator with two specific taps acting to generate the phase delay, but even with our best efforts of molecular manipulation, that would probably even be to slow. ... In the off chance it was molecularly approachable, the 'ring oscillator', once constructed, could be excited with a much lower frequency... think like striking a bell, the ring oscillator being the bell.



EDIT:
Looks like it might be awhile with a 5-stage 52MHz ring oscillator until they work out the parasitic optimizations.... Typical 180nm CMOS can reach 300MHz in a single oscillator, but there are tricks to step-phase with parallel ring oscillators to reach much higher effective frequencies well into the GHz range.... still not enough for Planck-ing.

http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research_projects.nsf/pages/nanotube_ringoscillator.index.html

Heater.
08-29-2011, 07:24 PM
Xanatos,
I'm really facinated as to why you "need" to do such a thing. Do tell.

Spiral_72
08-29-2011, 09:24 PM
Simple: use a single output from the Propeller, split into two cables going two their respective antennas, one cable being 1.6 x 10-35 meters longer than the other. :)

-Phil
Brilliant! Now where did I leave my tape measure?

jdolecki
08-29-2011, 09:39 PM
I think Humanoido "Big Brain " can do Time Phase Variance's.

He's into that Space Time Continium Stuff.

xanatos
08-30-2011, 01:55 AM
...taps separated by the distance you provided...

http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research_projects.nsf/pages/nanotube_ringoscillator.index.html

Not sure I could solder that! :smile: Plus I need to generate more than a few watts :innocent:

The molecular ring oscillator looks interesting, but damping parasitic oscillations would be a problem indeed. As would phase drift in the amplifier I'd need. Which may be a problem currently (no pun intended) with any configuration I am able to rig. Although I'm still convinced that this can be done with simpler means, but such means would require rock-steady oscillators. Does anyone know what types of oscillators available today offer the greatest precision in terms of frequence drift? Or alternately, an oscillator configuration which can track another oscillator's phase (PLL style) but with basically zero phase drift?

Nobody rack your brains too hard on this one... just in case you were! :smile: Just looking for a few off-the-top-of-your-head thoughts. So far, I've actually received much more useful information than I expected on such an odd topic. Thanks!

In response to questions regarding "why": I am working on some experiments that have interesting effects on photons. This particular part of the experiment is designed to create a perfect "photon sink". I never said I was going to complete this experiment any time very soon... but it hasn't stopped me from doing some preliminaries. Technology keeps evolving, and we're really on the threshold of some amazing stuff. Wish me luck! :-)

Dave

Clock Loop
08-30-2011, 11:47 AM
Uhh, im pretty sure an electron is bigger than the size you are trying to deal with.

Better fire up the particle accelerator.

oh, and brew up some java, this is going to be a long night.

It never occurred to anyone that if you smash particles together you will reveal a fractally dense world of seemingly different sub-particles that just get more divided and "different" the deeper you go?

Apparently these scientists have never actually zoomed into and out of a fractal.

i.e. ref: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

jdolecki
08-30-2011, 11:50 AM
Or you just need a "Flux Capacitor"

Heater.
08-30-2011, 11:55 AM
You are going to need two very short planks, one a teeny bit longer than the other. Clamp them to something heavy at one end of each. Then twang them. watch them go in and out of phase as they vibrate.

What is a perfect "photon sink"?

Don't atoms eat a photons perfectly when they absorb the energy from one raising the orbital of one of their electrons?

xanatos
08-31-2011, 04:06 AM
LOL... I thought this thread would generate some laughs if nothing else!

Heater, yes, there are a lot of things that eat photons without getting any stuck in their teeth... but in my application it can't be a thing... it must be a field.

Dave

Loopy Byteloose
08-31-2011, 10:36 AM
Happy to hear that the Propeller can do the job if the builder just gets the construction right.

Humanoido
09-10-2011, 04:47 AM
OK, probably a bit beyond the abilities of the Propeller, but I'm hoping one of you with astounding knowledge of such things can give me a pointer...I need to generate two high frequency EM fields whose phases are shifted by only Planck Time. This means I need to generate an incredibly tiny phase variance between the fields... But those of you who know what Planck Time is already know that, so... my question is, what are the best methods for doing this? or do they exist yet Thanks, DaveDave... I'm glad you asked that question... I'll need to offer up the Big Brain for this one...

Humanoido
09-10-2011, 05:06 AM
Dave, you are a brilliant man - I believe you are attempting to adjust the cosmic variance for a glimpse of time travel.

wjsteele
09-10-2011, 12:34 PM
Now if I can just find my ruler that's marked in yocto meters?

I think Parallax just announced a new one, didn't they???

Bill