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PJ Allen
08-29-2011, 01:19 AM
Google's head cheese must have ruffled some feathers (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133).

An atomic clock (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14657002) at the UK's National Physical Laboratory (NPL) has the best long-term accuracy of any in the world, research has found.

NPL's Dr Krzysztof Szymaniec said, "The fact that we can develop the most accurate standard has quite measurable economic implications."

The pun is lamentable, but is there some new law mandating that "quite" be used before every adjective? It's miserable. it's quite miserable.]

And now for something completely different (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14647644).

Loopy Byteloose
08-29-2011, 08:08 AM
Quite. Or shall I say 'bloody quite'. English seems to be reverting to British these days - CNN seems to be hiring less and less Americans. I suppose we will all have to learn to mumble a bit.

Heater.
08-29-2011, 09:14 AM
There is no such language as "British". According to wikipedia in the British Isles there are twelve languages across four branches of the Indo-European family. Lot's of Welsh and Scots would take issue with you on that point. That's before we get on to the modern influx of Chinese, Indians, etc etc etc.

Why the poor old English can't have their own language I don't know. Seems the rest of the world has stolen it and is now trying to dictate what it should be. Well, sod it, I'm English and I define the language as I want to, it's my right. As Humpty Dumpty said “When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

And an other thing, how come an Englishman does not have a passport that proclaims him to me "English", what's with all this "citizen of the United Kingdom and Norther Ireland" non-sense. "England" does not even get a mention in my passport. It's time the English people claimed their independence from the British Empire.

Back on topic, If there is one here, I agree education in Blighty is quite awful. Has been at least since when I had to suffer through it all those decades ago. I see no sign that it improved since.

And that's quite enough from me for now:)

alex123
08-29-2011, 07:20 PM
It's possible that English is Dr Krzysztof Szymaniec's second language. Does that matter? I think it's ok as long as you can understand what the guy wanted to tell you, right? Unless being called a purist is a complement for you...

Sapieha
08-29-2011, 09:04 PM
Hi --- From His name I can say he is Polish
It's possible that English is Dr Krzysztof Szymaniec's second language. Does that matter? I think it's ok as long as you can understand what the guy wanted to tell you, right? Unless being called a purist is a complement for you...

PJ Allen
08-30-2011, 12:16 AM
alex123 & Sapieha,
I don't know what you guys are trying to ascribe to Szymaniec. You're jumping to conclusions.
Maybe English is his "second language"? Maybe it's not. But why go there?
He's "Polish"? So what?
Either way, maybe English is his native language. Is that impossible?
Why manufacture excuses, or indulge in interpretation, or otherwise speculate?
Here's a thought: Maybe he simply doesn't value effective communication. Is that possible?

How can we have effective communication sans effective writing and speaking? Isn't it enough for "economic implications" to be measurable?
Once language is made meaningless we can all hope that we get the right "word-feel" across, using the "right" gestures or something - and then - then we can get to work on the inflexibility of numbers.

This trend of augmenting every adjective with "quite", be it affected or reflexive, and to the point where even superlatives aren't immune from its jading, is rooted in silliness.

Heater.,
England annexed Wales a long time ago. England and Scotland ceased to be separate countries (kingdoms) with the Act of Union.
UK citizenship? I thought you were all "subjects".
About twenty years ago or so, Americans became "US citizens".

PE - It was interesting to me, but lost on others, juxtaposing the article featuring the vaunted atomic clock's accuracy, the product of one era, against the Google goon's assessment of the present vs. "Blighty's" faded glory in things computing. I threw in the "robot" story from BBC as a techno-dessert for this quick lunch, even if "humanoid" makes me cringe. ["Humanoid"? Uh-oh, better call Security!]

alex123
08-30-2011, 01:52 AM
Masz racje Sapieha. Pewnie, ze ten koles jest z Polski... (google translator?)

P.J. What I'm saying is that the guy may not know any better. He was asked a question and he did his best...
There's plenty other lot more annoying English phrases people use, overuse or misuse - you is, like, your/you're or there/their/they’re - just to name a few... Unless you live in an unusually nice corner of the world what you're pointing out IMHO is really a marginal problem…

PJ Allen
08-30-2011, 03:55 AM
alex123,

I'm getting an argument from a guy who posts: "There's plenty other lot more annoying English phrases people use, overuse or misuse..."
That's amazing.

Honestly, are you kidding me?

On what basis do you proffer that "the guy may not know any better"?
That's twice you've done that.
Exactly what are you driving at?

erco
08-30-2011, 04:07 AM
And why does Hollywood put British accents on actors when they want us to think they're clever or important? In the movie Gladiator, they all spoke with British accents. Weren't they more like Italian/Roman/Latin/Spanish?

Heater.
08-30-2011, 09:20 AM
Why does Hollywood put British accents on actors, or even use British actors, when they want us to think the characters are gay, or clumsy socially inept nerds, or a vicious thugs or, well, almost anything else?

Of course Gladiators all spoke with British accents, we learned it from the Romans when they invaded, didn't we? :)

Heater.
08-30-2011, 10:11 AM
I have been pondering that quote from Dr Krzysztof Szymaniec and I can't for
the life of me see anything wrong with it. Yes there is a pun there, so what,
it's a very clear and concise way to say what he has to say, certainly nothing
lamentable about it. As for the use of the word "quite", there is nothing
wrong or "miserable" about that either. It has been in common usage in that
manner in English for a long time. You could substitute "quite" in this sentence
with such things as: "completely", "entirely", "absolutely", "actually", "truly"
or whatever takes your fancy.

Of course the word "quite" does tend to take on a variety of meanings depending
on the context and the tone. Ranging from "somewhat", "rather", "reasonably",
"kind of" upwards. All of which is rather sloppy and is not what I get from the
quoted sentence.


Moving on:

England, Scotland and Wales are still countries, no act of union or such ever
deleted them as countries. Complete with national identities, native languages,
country codes. The whole union is itself is also a country "The United Kingdom of Great
Britain and Norther Ireland".

Here we see that the country England has second class status in the union.
Since 1800 the English have been ruled by the Parliament of the United Kingdom.
Since 1998 there has been a Scottish Parliament and a Welsh Assembly both with
powers that have been growing over the years leaning toward full independence
at some point in the future. Meanwhile the poor old English have no such
parliament or assembly and independence looks far away.

As for citizen or subject, with the British Nationality Act of 1981 I became a
Citizen of the United Kingdom on January 1st 1983, the term "British Subject"
longer applied. Check wiki for details.

alex123
08-30-2011, 03:52 PM
On what basis do you proffer that "the guy may not know any better"?
That's twice you've done that.
Exactly what are you driving at?

Ok, Here's my point:
Polish happens to be my first language too. I don't see any problems with that sentence either. Therefore I undestand this guy lot better than you do (not taking about understanding English here)...
Obviously this redundant word is incorrect but missing or wrong words are lot worse... As long as you can understand what the guy was saying it's close enough... Well, unless you don't...

Sapieha
08-30-2011, 08:16 PM
Hi alex.

My to.
For many people it is simple to criticize others language usage.
Them don't understand how difficult it is for people from This region of languages to learn English.



Ok, Here's my point:
Polish happens to be my first language too. I don't see any problems with that sentence either. Therefore I undestand this guy lot better than you do (not taking about understanding English here)...
Obviously this redundant word is incorrect but missing or wrong words are lot worse... As long as you can understand what the guy was saying it's close enough... Well, unless you don't...

PJ Allen
08-30-2011, 11:56 PM
alex123 & Sapieha,
Neither of you knows for a fact what Szymaniec's linguistic background is. For all you know he was born in Britain, or Canada, or Sweden for that matter. You assume, based on his name, that he doesn't know better. Why? He's a spokesman for the NPL in the UK.

Sapieha,
Swedish and English are both Germanic languages. The Danes, more Germanic peoples, spent a lot of time in Sweden and in England, too; they were the founders of York (and Dublin.) They share many linguistic threads.

Heater.,
How do you get more measurable than measurable? "Quite measurable", like "quite unique", is absurd.
When a country is annexed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_and_Berwick_Act_1746) its sovereignty is null, it ceases to be a country (memories and imaginations don't change that.)
The Acts of Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707), creating the Kingdom of Great Britain from England and Scotland, have not been repealed. The country's been the United Kingdom since 1801 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Great_Britain), all revisionist non sequitur notwithstanding.
Anyway, take that up with Lispy Toothloose in another subject already.

Sapieha
08-31-2011, 12:16 AM
Hi PJ Allen.

1. First of all You are correct on Swedish and English language ----> BUT I'm are born Polish only living in Sweden from I was 26 year and both talk and write good in Polish.
But I'm still not so good in writing Swedish but have not problems with talk. English as You can see with help from some programs I can write little BUT can't talk at all.

2. Only in Polish country People use that spelling on First name Dr Krzysztof Szymaniec that have rz and sz and voice in Polish language as simple letters.
So it is no that Why? He's a spokesman for the NPL in the UK ---> His First name say already what place he is born.



Ps. Krzysztof = Christoffer (My first name) -- That why I changed my First name to that to be possible for Swedish people to write it.



alex123 & Sapieha,
Neither of you knows for a fact what Szymaniec's linguistic background is. For all you know he was born in Britain, or Canada, or Sweden for that matter. You assume, based on his name, that he doesn't know better. Why? He's a spokesman for the NPL in the UK.

Sapieha,
Swedish and English are both Germanic languages. The Danes, more Germanic peoples, spent a lot of time in Sweden and in England, too; they were the founders of York (and Dublin.) They share many linguistic threads.

Heater.,
How do you get more measurable than measurable? "Quite measurable", like "quite unique", is absurd.
When a country is annexed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_and_Berwick_Act_1746) its sovereignty is null, it ceases to be a country (memories and imaginations don't change that.)
The Acts of Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707), creating the Kingdom of Great Britain from England and Scotland, have not been repealed. The country's been the United Kingdom since 1801 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Great_Britain), all revisionist non sequitur notwithstanding.
Anyway, take that up with Lispy Toothloose in another subject already.

PJ Allen
08-31-2011, 02:32 AM
Sapieha,
What's in a name? I try not to infer much, if anything. Lots of immigrants name their children born in their adoptive land just as they would were they in their native land.
"Quite measurable" must be ridiculous (oh, I forgot to get with the fashion, that is to say quite ridiculous) in Polish or Swedish.

Well, hey, the dipstick TV "meteorologist" described the conditions in the area of a wildfire as "not ultra super dry." Maybe I should go stand on a ledge. :frown:

Tor
08-31-2011, 10:05 AM
alex123 & Sapieha,
Sapieha,
Swedish and English are both Germanic languages. The Danes, more Germanic peoples, spent a lot of time in Sweden and in England, too; they were the founders of York (and Dublin.) They share many linguistic threads.
PJ,
When Sapieha wrote '[,.]how difficult it is for people from This region of languages to learn English.[..] he was referring to the region of languages of which Polish is a part, not the region where he lives. It's true that it's easy (relatively speaking) for Scandinavians to learn English, er, quite well, not only because of the linguistic heritage but also from (or even more from) the exposure to English that we experience. TV and movies are totally dominated by English (cinema: American English. TV: Slightly more UK English), and there's traditionally no dubbing, unlike in e.g. Germany. To the degree that I myself can speak English I learned it by osmosis, the English education we had in elementary school at the time was rubbish.
Speakers of Polish and other languages in that linguistic group don't have any of those free advantages.

-Tor

skylight
08-31-2011, 12:06 PM
Don't believe everything you read innit :tongue: