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View Full Version : Parallax forum etiquette to be increased with new rules



Ken Gracey
08-26-2011, 11:02 PM
Hey all,

Our internal forum team is going to be making some improvements to our forum management with the intent of keeping these a welcome and productive place. These forums are among the most productive I'm aware of and we want to keep that level of quality. I'm not exactly sure of the exact tactical plan, but here's the basic idea:

- new rules to be published
- general vibe should be positive as appropriate
- proper etiquette will be encouraged
- intent is to support our products (discussion about other products is welcome, but intent to lead our customers away is not appreciated)
- a Parallax moderator account will keep threads on topic and encourage following rules
- threads will be relocated where they belong
- environment will welcome newcomers so people are not afraid to post
- community forum moderators will help with the same rules

Keep in mind that most of this is already done, by you, and that we appreciate it. But occasionally we've got a few errant missiles here and there which we would like to safely land. Since we have so many skilled and helpful contributors we want to be able to back their support with the best environment possible.

We'll wait to hear from Bump with a plan, in about ten days (he gets some time off), but if you want to convey anything to the internal team you can do it in this thread. There's another thread about etiquette recently posted by a forum member which you may want to read.

Ken Gracey

Roy Eltham
08-26-2011, 11:08 PM
I really like hearing this, because I have been turned off from time to time by some threads and or posters that I felt a little more moderation could have prevented.

Glad you guys recognize that something needs to be done, and are doing it.

Roy

Ken Gracey
08-26-2011, 11:09 PM
I really like hearing this, because I have been turned off from time to time by some threads and or posters that I felt a little more moderation could have prevented.

Glad you guys recognize that something needs to be done, and are doing it.

Roy

Yes, our team is finally worn out thinking about it and we're ready to act. Thank you for the support.

erco
08-26-2011, 11:50 PM
Good call, Ken. Honestly, this is the most civilized and upbeat forum I have ever seen. Personally, I've grown a thick skin and I don't mind the occasional "errant missile" from the panoply of personalities here. Even when I get rowdy myself, I've been impressed with the intelligent and supportive replies from the crowd. But from Parallax's perspective, I fully understand & support your goal of more unified, positive and professional guidelines to promote fair play and encourage newcomers to join our ranks. The bigger and better the Parallax community, the better.

SRLM
08-27-2011, 12:36 AM
Those points seem to be a reiteration of what has already been implemented? In any case, I don't think more moderation is the solution. Curtailing the freedom to post what each person thinks is appropriate will limit the amount of innovative/useful information, and the general attractiveness of the forums is due in part to the wide variety of answers posted here. It's boring and, more importantly, not very useful when all the answers agree.

Fxc2hh
08-27-2011, 01:07 AM
but if you want to convey anything to the internal team you can do it in this thread. There's another thread about etiquette recently posted by a forum member which you may want to read.

Ken Gracey

It might help others know about the rules if you make this post a sticky until the new rules are posted and that way people may try to do what they can to cooperate.

Franklin
08-27-2011, 01:11 AM
It's boring and, more importantly, not very useful when all the answers agree.
I don't think the object is to agree but just to be civil. As Bill would say "Be excellent to each other"

Zoot
08-27-2011, 02:03 AM
Thank goodness. It's about time. I'd like to note that in some of our formal research, the most heavily -- and sometimes brutally -- moderated online communities are the ones that are most successful. Keeping threads on-topic, policing uncivil discourse, discouraging multiple posts, etc., make the forum more vibrant and helpful.

ElectricAye
08-27-2011, 02:07 AM
Ut-oh.
Lemme guess.
From now on I'll be required to post this in my signature:

davejames
08-27-2011, 03:29 AM
...does...um...does this mean I have to take down my fruit pie search request?

ElectricAye
08-27-2011, 03:57 AM
...does...um...does this mean I have to take down my fruit pie search request?

Give it up. It was a fruitile exercise.

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)
08-27-2011, 04:08 AM
Thank you Ken!!!



general vibe should be positive as appropriate


A moderation control on some of the negativity which has been allowed to reign lately will be welcome!

davejames
08-27-2011, 04:26 PM
Give it up. It was a fruitile exercise.

:lol::lol::lol:

GordonMcComb
08-27-2011, 04:34 PM
A moderation control on some of the negativity which has been allowed to reign lately will be welcome!

I'd even go so far as to say some of these posters are nattering nabobs of negativity. Spiro thinks so, too.

-- Gordon

ElectricAye
08-27-2011, 05:29 PM
I'd even go so far as to say some of these posters are nattering nabobs of negativity. Spiro thinks so, too.

-- Gordon


That would be Spiro Agnew for all you pre-hippy whipper-snappers out there.

GordonMcComb
08-27-2011, 08:36 PM
That would be Spiro Agnew for all you pre-hippy whipper-snappers out there.[/IMG]

Correct. It's a fun line to repeat, plus when he made it, it was directed at those who found fault at everything, even in the face of positives. Seemed appropriate in this case.

Besides, when it came to slinging insults, Spiro was no pusillanimous pussyfooter.

-- Gordon

Leon
08-27-2011, 09:21 PM
Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In programme was always poking fun at him, IIRC.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
08-27-2011, 10:18 PM
Not to negate Gordon's narrative by correcting "negativity" to "negativism" or to imply negligence -- or even simple neglect -- over such a negligible niggle, but here's Mr. Agnew's quote in full:


"In the United States today, we have more than our share of the nattering nabobs of negativism. They have formed their own 4H Club: the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history."

Heavens! He had a heyday heaving humorous harangues and alliterative allocution.

-Phil

ElectricAye
08-27-2011, 11:21 PM
Not to negate Gordon's narrative by correcting "negativity" to "negativism" or to imply negligence -- or even simple neglect -- over such a negligible niggle, but here's Mr. Agnew's quote in full:


"In the United States today, we have more than our share of the nattering nabobs of negativism. They have formed their own 4H Club: the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history."

Heavens! He had a heyday heaving humorous harangues and alliterative allocution.

-Phil

Phil,

He actually said, "...They have formed their own 5H Club: the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of historical hypotrochoids."
Agnew came out at about the same time my Spirograph showed up under the Christmas tree, so he was the guy who invented that gizmo that allowed me to make all kinds of interesting patterns.
Man, don't you know nothin?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/HypotrochoidOutThreeFifths.gif

Franklin
08-28-2011, 01:26 AM
Man, don't you know nothin?
Oops.....

xanatos
08-28-2011, 01:32 AM
Just want to express my gratitude for the intent of excellence on these forums. I have never, ever, seen a more harmonious, well-run, helpful, drama-free board than this. Not that there aren't a few occassional odd posts that randomly show up, often without explanation or followup that make one scratch one's head... but they're exceedingly rare, and more to the point, they rarely incite the raging wildfires that are so commion on other technical boards I frequent. These forums, and all the participants on here, deserve a great deal of credit for maturity and the level of excellence shown. I'm sure that the new rules will only serve to strengthen something that is already great.

I can't begin to count how many times these forums have saved me.

The hypertrochoid graphic above is pretty cool, too! :-)

Dave X

potatohead
08-28-2011, 01:44 AM
"Be Excellent To One Another"

That basic rule is in play for a few forums I frequent. In this place, I see it a lot. Not all the time, but a lot --more than most, and for that I second the post above. Really like the people here, and the tech acumen is off the charts good. Can't even begin to tell you how much I learn, and that it's fun, if only there were more time. Can you all imagine being, say 16 again, with this resource at hand? (Microcontrolled can)

piguy101
08-28-2011, 01:51 AM
What is with these forums? How come most people can form a proper sentence? On these forums no one is saying a 100W light bulb will draw 100W / 12V = 8.3 A from a car battery. (I read that on a forum today not from Parallax)

potatohead
08-28-2011, 02:01 AM
I personally believe there are three factors contributing to the high literacy level here.

1. The general culture, or what I like to call "The Parallax Way", articulated by Ken, Chip and others, from time to time. It's a general call to excellence, and encouragement that is really catchy, and is nearly always done in good form, humble too.

2. A new CPU, which the Prop is, attracts some of the more experienced people because they are best positioned to make use of it, and perform the boot strapping activities required to solidify the software ecosystem surrounding it.

3. The expectation that there will be newbies needing to get on board the Propeller, having used the other products, means keeping it clean, simple, encouraging, and that is largely due to the experienced people knowing what a new CPU means, and this CPU in particular is very distinctive, meaning there is a lot to discuss, and it's gotta be approachable or it all will wither on the vine, limiting the return on the investments made as a whole.

Those are the common elements that I have observed. Whatever the reasons are, the people-ecosystem surrounding the Prop and Parallax in general is very high quality. Huge value add, IMHO.

frank freedman
08-28-2011, 03:11 AM
Ut-oh.
Lemme guess.
From now on I'll be required to post this in my signature:

http://critteristic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/cat-heart.jpg

Can you make me one of these in a spherical configuration? z.B. Cat's Aye???

Frank

ElectricAye
08-28-2011, 04:04 AM
Can you make me one of these in a spherical configuration?...

As I understand it, to sphericalize a cat is pretty easy: simply increase its usual sleeping habit from 23.2 hours a day to 23.96 hours a day. Which is not too hard to do.

erco
08-28-2011, 07:59 AM
What is with these forums? How come most people can form a proper sentence? On these forums no one is saying a 100W light bulb will draw 100W / 12V = 8.3 A from a car battery. (I read that on a forum today not from Parallax)

Grogg say 100W/12V=8.33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 3 A, but incandescent bulb for 115VAC, and automotive applications nominally 13.6V. Apples/oranges.

Grogg hate bulb, want smash bulb. Grogg like apples & oranges.

ctwardell
08-28-2011, 04:27 PM
grogg hate bulb, want smash bulb. Grogg like apples & oranges.

roflol.

C.W.

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)
08-28-2011, 05:50 PM
"Be Excellent To One Another"

Excellent.

Kevin Wood
08-29-2011, 02:03 AM
This thread needs some background music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbrn9eXEKWk&feature=related). For some of the older forum members this might even bring back some memories. :)

Enjoy.

Whit
08-29-2011, 02:23 AM
Thanks Ken!

PJ Allen
08-29-2011, 02:25 AM
Everybody Sing! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZZivl5iKCo)

mindrobots
08-29-2011, 02:53 AM
Ken,

Please add a bullet item to your rules:

- NO BARNEY. EVER!

Thank you.

ctwardell
08-29-2011, 03:33 AM
- NO BARNEY. EVER!

But Barney is so cute, and kind, and purple...

I bet Barney in a Prop hat would be a good mascot for the prop.

C.W.

Cluso99
08-29-2011, 11:02 AM
Thanks Ken. Way too many threads are being hijacked. I am tired of the recommendations trying to persuade users, or potential users, to use "another" processor when the topic does not require it. Only the other day I read a Basic Stamp thread (I think this is the first time ever) and I saw the same hijacking.

And... IMHO many of the posts on this thread are off-topic!

Heater.
08-29-2011, 11:18 AM
I'm not sure why these forums would need any new rules to enforce better etiquette (Although some rules to enforce improved spelling and grammar, see thread title, would be nice:).

In general these forums have been very polite and orderly, it's a pleasure to be here. Occasionally things flare up as they do in all human discourse but I've noticed that not so many are itching to throw gasoline on the fires and things soon calm down. The "stirrers" generally get ignored so they soon give up.

Oh yes, I must admit to getting out of line myself, apologies to anyone I may have annoyed.

I do hope things do not become too "PC" (Parallax Correct). We should not have to live in fear when suggesting competitors products to solve peoples problems where there are compelling reasons to do so. Nor should we live in fear when making balanced comparisons.

Heater.
08-29-2011, 11:40 AM
For all those struggling with the idea of etiquette on the forums I recommend Emily Post's "Etiquette - Manners for a new world".
At least the author has a fitting surname:)

jazzed
08-29-2011, 01:36 PM
Yes, Parallax needs to give these forums more attention.

The content of the Forum Rules (http://forums.parallax.com/misc.php?do=showrules) link in the Posting Permissions block at the bottom of this forum page needs to be changed to reflect the rules.

Personally I would like to see all non-Parallax "designed for profit" products, promotions, and for sale advertising be restricted to the classifieds except where used in a project. I would happily follow such a rule. Constant Propeller or other forum "solicitation" is very annoying.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
08-29-2011, 05:45 PM
One word of caution: "DeSilva". Over-moderation has consequences, too.

-Phil

mindrobots
08-29-2011, 05:50 PM
OK, in summary:

1) Be Excellent to one another.
2) Moderation in everything, including moderation.
3) No Barney. EVER.

Browser
08-29-2011, 06:03 PM
OK, in summary:

1) Be Excellent to one another.
2) Moderation in everything, including moderation.
3) No Barney. EVER.

4) everybody must has cat in avatar or account deleet.

-browz

Ron Czapala
08-29-2011, 06:14 PM
There are certain threads that amount to nothing more than pontificating and contain little or no substance.

While some members are obviously entertained by these extravagant, unsubstantial "projects", IMHO those theads should be relegated to a blog (or a dumpster) rather than cluttering up forums.

Maybe if there was Setting to ignore any thread started by an individual (in addition to ignoring posts)...

potatohead
08-29-2011, 06:37 PM
@Phil: Yeah. Seconded. Major league loss, IMHO.

Bean
08-29-2011, 06:47 PM
As a moderator, I tend to let most things pass unless that are really bad. And it depends on who the member is too. I would have think more than twice about deleting a post from say...Mike Green.

The problem we have sometimes is when someone is "thin-skinned" and blows up at the slightest negative comment. Then the name-calling starts and the whole thread degenerates from there.

So it's a tough call sometimes. What I would call "a helpful suggestion" someone else might take as "being mean". I wish we had a setting that each member could set as to their negativity tolerance. Something like:
1) Thin-skinned - Good luck with your time machine project.
2) Just don't be mean - I don't see how your time machine could possibly work.
3) Tell me what you REALLY think, I can take it. - You idiot, what are you thinking. Your time machine will never work.

I think we do need to crack down on the hijacking, irrelevent posts, posts touting non-parallax products and such.

Bean

Heater.
08-29-2011, 06:49 PM
Ok, should I change the logo in my avatar to read "ZiCat"?

Bump
08-29-2011, 10:58 PM
Ok, should I change the logo in my avatar to read "ZiCat"?
It might become a requirement.

Cluso99
08-29-2011, 11:13 PM
My pet hate is the hijacking of any thread where the question is how can I do this with a prop and the answer comes back that xxx chip will do it better. That is hijacking and it is often done by a certain individual. There is always an argument that xxx or yyy may do it better, but that was not the question! There is a specific tone to this hijacking and it is common practice to the very threads promoting parallax chips. I even noticed the same hijacking on the Basic Stamp.

This hijacking and promoting of other chips to the detriment of Parallax is just plain rude. These threads in particular, are the ones that set out to promote the use of the prop, and IMHO try to turn potential users away from the prop. These threads always turn into heated debates on why xxx chip is better than the prop. As I said, I noticed this on a Basic Stamp thread too. This is the moderation I am after.

There is the other threads where things get heated because opinions differ. These occasionally need moderation IMHO.

I see nothing wrong with designs that use an alternative processor to something specific, as long as it is intended to supplement a Parallax product. (e.g. Jazzed's ATTiny use to be a peripheral to the prop to add a PS2 Keyboard and Mouse via I2C to the prop is a perfect example of a nice product that aids the prop because it expands the I/O and adds an intelligent peripheral to the prop - sorry Steve for using your example, but I think this is a great idea and aids the prop, not detracts from it).

Zoot
08-29-2011, 11:19 PM
BTW, etiqueitte is spelled etiquette

potatohead
08-29-2011, 11:32 PM
(looks at Bump's decidedly trendy avatar, happy that we don't offer sound capability)

Zoot
08-29-2011, 11:37 PM
Well, for my part, I can only go by a bit of history. My impression is that the Parallax forums used to be both lower-key and more helpful. It wasn't often that there was discussion about other manufacturers' being "better" -- they were only brought up in the context of PERIPHERAL use -- as in "If you know how to program an ATTiny, that would be perfect for a motor controller for your Stamp". As someone wrote above, this is Parallax's site, and hyping another device for the primary guts of the project at hand is rude. This isn't a "public" forum per se; if you want to argue that kind of material go to an EE site or LetsMakeRobots or something similar. That said, there are, of course, times where the "real" answer -- in the sense of "most practical and appropriate" -- is going to be another device, but I think that courteousness to the sponsors of the site might dictate something low-key, e.g. "I'm not really sure that the Stamp or Prop are ideal for what you want, but if you want to have a go at it, we can help".

I'm not just speaking of micros here -- it would be like hyping a high-end Devantech SRF unit when someone ask for help with a Ping))). It might, all things being equal, be a "better ideal solution", but I think sometimes members forget who our hosts are.

Second, I think many, many threads get way off-topic, or are "off-topic" to begin with. This might make me an ogre, but I don't remember there being so many topics and so many posts that were basically "my cool link that I found" or pictures of pets, or photos of children, or where I went surfing, or whatever. I'm sure I've been guilty of this myself. But there are plenty of social sites online. Another way to put it -- the forums seem to have gotten to be a bit more of a "clubhouse" and not as much pure problem-solving and discussion related to Parallax products, robotics, machining/design/contstruction techniques, etc. And I think the "clubhouse" vibe leads to the symptoms already described -- lapses into pettiness, feelings of unappreciation "for all I've done", less warmth towards "newbies", etc.

Third, although I mentioned it above -- stricter moderation. I think the pure focus of the forum in previous years helped the casual and regular visitor, because most threads were on-topic, and described some solution or approach that was useful. I lurked for nearly 18 months, reading every thread, because it took that long until I had problem that hadn't been answered already. Now it seems sometimes that I have to wade through a lot of posts that are not solutions/approaches, but something else altogether (for example, if you have lots of links to share, why not just create a thread called "cool links" and add posts to it as you come across more stuff). And certainly, the forum's built-in blogs are way more appropriate for a lot of material that ends up as threads on the forums.

Along those lines, a small detail -- I'm not sure allowing in-progress or incomplete project details in the "Projects" forum was a good call -- the Projects pages used to be a pretty comprehensive list of complete projects -- details, code, schematics -- and now a good chunk of material there is not helpful (and doesn't promote nor create an incentive for complete documentation of projects).

Microcontrolled
08-30-2011, 12:10 AM
(looks at Bump's decidedly trendy avatar, happy that we don't offer sound capability)

Very, VERY happy!! :)

@Zoot: I agree that most threads are "off topic" to begin with, mainly because of the community this forum has formed. It would be hard to break apart what it has become, and I doubt any amount of moderation can do that. There is already a "chatter" tag to separate the helpful and non-helpful, though not everyone uses it.

Bump
08-30-2011, 12:46 AM
This hijacking and promoting of other chips to the detriment of Parallax is just plain rude. These threads in particular, are the ones that set out to promote the use of the prop, and IMHO try to turn potential users away from the prop. These threads always turn into heated debates on why xxx chip is better than the prop. As I said, I noticed this on a Basic Stamp thread too. This is the moderation I am after.

That is the type of moderation we plan to offer; we just need to put the infrastructure in place for reference.
We agree with the assessment that the mood on the Parallax Discussion Forums doesn't need to be corrected much; we don't have (many?) runaway trolls, and people are generally considerate of others with a few lapses in judgement.. but that's why people go back and delete their own posts, right?

We're primarily investigating what we can do for topics, relevance, and possibly better categorization. We have a lot of top-level threads and that might be something we need to change going forward.


(looks at Bump's decidedly trendy avatar, happy that we don't offer sound capability)

Perhaps people with threads requiring moderation will be forced to view the forums through the "Nyan Scope."

Duane Degn
08-30-2011, 01:04 AM
I've been thinking about what I'd like to see changed about the forums ever since Ken started this thread.

I'm a bit torn about what I think I'd like.


I think many, many threads get way off-topic, or are "off-topic" to begin with. . . . so many posts that were basically "my cool link that I found" . . . why not just create a thread called "cool links" and add posts to it as you come across more stuff). And certainly, the forum's built-in blogs are way more appropriate for a lot of material that ends up as threads on the forums.

I like Zoot's ideas about ways of sharing "cool links".

I've also thought about concerns some forum members have raised about making sure appropriate credit is given for ideas shared on the forum.

A while back I read Sir David King's "Hippocratic Oath for Scientists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath_for_Scientists)" which caused more thought about these concerns.

I've bolded the lines I think pertain the most to forum posts.





The seven principles of the code, intended to guide scientist's actions, are:

Act with skill and care in all scientific work. Maintain up to date skills and assist their development in others.


Take steps to prevent corrupt practices and professional misconduct. Declare conflicts of interest.


Be alert to the ways in which research derives from and affects the work of other people, and respect the rights and reputations of others.


Ensure that your work is lawful and justified.


Minimise and justify any adverse effect your work may have on people, animals and the natural environment.


Seek to discuss the issues that science raises for society. Listen to the aspirations and concerns of others.


Do not knowingly mislead, or allow others to be misled, about scientific matters. Present and review scientific evidence, theory or interpretation honestly and accurately.


While this forum isn't necessarily a scientific journal, I like to think there is scientifically significant work being done by forum members.

I've been looking for a place to share the quote for a while. I had planned to add it to my blog but I thought it was relevant to this thread's discussion.

I just saw Bump's post about deleting threads as I was about to post this.

I think deleting a post is fine if it is done immediately. I strongly dislike it when people delete posts that have been replied to.

I'm fine with posts being edited to remove mean language but I think the reason for the edit should be included.

I really dislike it when people edit posts because they are embarrassed by there ignorance in an earlier post. Removing the initial question after it has been answered makes the answer given useless to other forum members.

Duane

Bump
08-30-2011, 01:24 AM
I just saw Bump's post about deleting threads as I was about to post this.

I think deleting a post is fine if it is done immediately. I strongly dislike it when people delete posts that have been replied to.

I'm fine with posts being edited to remove mean language but I think the reason for the edit should be included.

I really dislike it when people edit posts because they are embarrassed by there ignorance in an earlier post. Removing the initial question after it has been answered makes the answer given useless to other forum members.

When we initially relaunched the forums on the new (current) software we disabled the ability for edits/deletions; however we received a few complaints on the subject. It seems most people don't abuse this right, and it is a more intrinsic aspect of forums. Generally accepted that such tom-foolery when allowed to exist could, at any given time, exist.

As far as moderated deletions, we're working on a few more dynamics for this approach too. Our first big hurdle was managing the spam... and we've cut that significantly. From 80 spam-accounts per day to about 3 a month? Next comes polishing the forums, we've got wax and buffers.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
08-30-2011, 01:43 AM
... but that's why people go back and delete their own posts, right?
Well, no, not always. If I post something I regret, and if it survives without comment, I'll delete it. But once it's commented on or taken to task -- even justifiably (and there are numerous examples of that) -- I feel a responsibility to leave it up. Otherwise, it's like being in the public stocks without a sign around my neck telling what I did, and that's unfair to the community. Granted, it's no fun having one's miscreant behavior publicly indicted by a moderator -- especially one of Mike Green's stature; but once that happens, a simple deletion can't undo the sin and wipe the slate clean. You just have to suck it up and try to be a better forumista in the future.

-Phil

erco
08-30-2011, 01:45 AM
@PhiPi: Spoken like the true gentleman I have always known you to be!

WBA Consulting
08-30-2011, 01:47 AM
In regards to "cool links" type of random, short-life threads, there is a way to combine threads, as well as moving posts, by moderators. These are tools that should be investigated for keeping good threads clean, while allowing the non-relevant, yet somehow useful information to still exist somewhere on the forums.

Duane Degn
08-30-2011, 01:59 AM
If I post something I regret, and if it survives without comment, I'll delete it. But once it's commented on or taken to task . . . I feel a responsibility to leave it up.
I agree completely.

I feel obligated to leave my mistakes for others to see. Whether it's a stupid joke (that was funny at 2 AM) or bad advice because I didn't read the poster's question well enough. I fell like if I wrote, I should leave it.

I might add an edit to explain myself but I leave the original words along with my retraction/correction.

Duane

Kevin Wood
08-30-2011, 03:57 AM
I think off topic posts should be allowed, even if it requires an off topic sub forum. The fact is, it gets boring talking about the same things all of the time. Surely people have interests beyond what Parallax sells in their store.

PJ Allen
08-30-2011, 04:04 AM
Propeller should be about Propeller, Basic Stamps should be about Basic Stamps, and recipes for veal marsala and reminisces about filament voltage transformers belong elsewhere.
A place for everything and everything in its place.

Chris Savage
08-30-2011, 05:42 PM
OK, in summary:

1) Be Excellent to one another.
2) Moderation in everything, including moderation.
3) No Barney. EVER.



4) everybody must has cat in avatar or account deleet.

-browz

Ok, that was worth a few laughs! :lol:

Is it just me or does anyone else ear the Nyan song in their heads when they see Bump's avatar?

mindrobots
08-30-2011, 05:56 PM
I was unaware of the Nyan song.

Now I am. It one of the most disturbing 3 minutes I've ever experienced.

3a) NO BARNEY. EVER.
3b) NO NYAN SONG. EVER.

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)
08-30-2011, 07:16 PM
Well, no, not always. If I post something I regret, and if it survives without comment, I'll delete it. But once it's commented on or taken to task -- even justifiably (and there are numerous examples of that) -- I feel a responsibility to leave it up. Otherwise, it's like being in the public stocks without a sign around my neck telling what I did, and that's unfair to the community. Granted, it's no fun having one's miscreant behavior publicly indicted by a moderator -- especially one of Mike Green's stature; but once that happens, a simple deletion can't undo the sin and wipe the slate clean. You just have to suck it up and try to be a better forumista in the future.

-Phil

strikeouts are a good way to handle this. I've said a one or two things on the forum that I felt were too harsh or out of line. Instead of deleting the content, a quick edit with strikeout allows one to "suck it up".

OBC

Peter KG6LSE
08-30-2011, 09:27 PM
Ok, that was worth a few laughs! :lol:

Is it just me or does anyone else ear the Nyan song in their heads when they see Bump's avatar?

I do ......

Jimmy Lieb
08-31-2011, 03:25 AM
Well, the people you meet here are amazing. I bought 2 LCDs from P!-Ro, and instead of just paypalling him the money, he had me donate it to charity! It is amazing how nice the people are here.

as for the part about not referring customers to non-parallax stuff, Have you seen our hate for the arduino? :)

As someone said, this is one of the most civilized forums I have ever used.

Loopy Byteloose
08-31-2011, 04:54 AM
Doggone it. What's this cat stuff about?

frank freedman
08-31-2011, 05:47 AM
This thread needs some background music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbrn9eXEKWk&feature=related). For some of the older forum members this might even bring back some memories. :)

Enjoy.

Here, try this one for musical fit.....

http://pbskids.org/rogers/

F

bsnut
08-31-2011, 09:18 AM
I was unaware of the Nyan song.

Now I am. It one of the most disturbing 3 minutes I've ever experienced.

3a) NO BARNEY. EVER.
3b) NO NYAN SONG. EVER.

I am in agreement with you.

BTW I like cats and I have one.

skylight
08-31-2011, 12:15 PM
As part of this new etticat do we have to raise our pinkies as we type?

ctwardell
08-31-2011, 12:49 PM
As part of this new etticat do we have to raise our pinkies as we type?

Only if having tea and crumpets or in the presence of a cat.

C.W.

Loopy Byteloose
09-01-2011, 09:40 AM
My dog is upset. He thinks Parallax has gone over to cat lovers. I keep telling him we all have to accept changes, but he isn't listening to this. I try to explain that tolerance is part of any community experience and that the world is full of nice cats.

skylight
09-01-2011, 08:21 PM
I'm sorry Parallax but I totally disagree with all this etiquette rubbish and i refuse to wear a suit and tie whilst posting, t-shirt and jeans for me!

Zoot
09-01-2011, 08:30 PM
Have you seen our hate for the arduino?

Actually, while the Arduino is not often mentioned as an alternative product, plenty of other products are. That said, I think that the clear disdain and "hate" for Arduino, and I suppose, by extension, Arduino users, is one of the things makes the forum less than welcoming.

A lot of Arduino users do not use Stamps or Propellers, but they use a LOT of Parallax sensors, motor controllers, robot kits, etc. These users should be welcome and should be assisted in getting their Parallax products to work. Given that Arduino sketches are essentially C language, this should not be odious. If I run across Arduino users having trouble getting a Parallax sensor or controller to work, I am always reluctant to send them to the Parallax Forums, because I think that the negativity about the user's chosen platform will come through.

Personally, I would like to see C libraries for the popular Parallax sensors supported by Parallax -- nothing complex, but the basic wrappers. This would let both C users on any platform and Arduino users go to town. However, I don't think that's likely, and a lot of users have already created Parallax sensor libraries in C, so I would think that the Forum members might help bridge the gap. The basic concept for a Ping is always the same -- issue a trigger pulse, make the pin an input, wait for the pin to go high, measure the pulse. I often see where PIC or Arduino users are just told to go elsewhere for help, when they are trying to get a Parallax product to work.

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)
09-02-2011, 04:56 AM
I don't have a hatred of the "Arduino"; just total confusion as to why anyone would use it when the Propeller is there. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a few more Arduino shields with Propeller chips on them, doing what they do best..

OBC

frank freedman
09-02-2011, 05:26 AM
Just wondering why there should be negative reactions to other designers product choices? I would assume that professional courtesy would include respecting a designers choice of devices and methods as they probably have all the facts surrounding their choices. All of the possible choices came into being for a (marketable) reason didn't they?

That being said, if I am visiting your firm, and told your clients that they should really go down the road to a competing firm that would rightly piss you off would it not? You are (virtually) a guest of Parallax on this site. Why would you take advantage of what is offered here at no cost to you, benefit from much of it and then tell other customers that they would be better off down the road. And again, since one doesn't know fully why someone is here, doesn't that make one look awfully silly telling that person to try down the road?

Such behavior also tells others that you may not be comfortable with your own design choices by being here in a negative fashion, or that you are feeding your own "more correctness" by trying to convince others that they are less correct in their decision process.

Just random thoughts,

Frank

frank freedman
09-02-2011, 05:29 AM
I'm sorry Parallax but I totally disagree with all this etiquette rubbish and i refuse to wear a suit and tie whilst posting, t-shirt and jeans for me!

Just don't tell us your working commando, that would be way to much information........

ctwardell
09-02-2011, 02:08 PM
My dog is upset. He thinks Parallax has gone over to cat lovers.

Tell him not to worry Loopy, the more cats there are, the more cats he has to chase!

C.W.

PJ Allen
09-02-2011, 02:11 PM
It's getting off track, but I disagree with practically everything in #73.

I know of no instance where an arduina person was "chased off."

The arduina is not my bag.

A couple of times where arduina people showed up for "support", it turns out that they just wanted a "sketch", as though "support" and glomming a "sketch" were synonymous. It's not that they were unclear as to how to proceed, they didn't want to know or to learn anything.

I didn't chase them away, but I was blown away by their ignorance of their platform, unable to change an output to an input, basic stuff. They didn't want to work out their problem, they just wanted a "sketch", someone else to do their thinking for them. That's the "beauty" of arduina: chances are, someone, one of the millions of fans "world-wide", somewhere has done a "lib" or a "sketch", you don't have to think, just cut_&_paste your way to "achievment."

Recently, some arduina genius, a forum first-timer no less, wanted to know about maybe he should get an ADC module from some other vendor for his arduina and he was godsmacked for the news provided by none other than me that his wonderful arduina has analog inputs. The guy showed up on the Parallax forum to ask how to make his arduina work - and he got a competent resolution. Amazing!

This is an anonymous forum, so I don't get this cozy, nurturing, "welcoming" jazz.

Loopy Byteloose
09-02-2011, 03:09 PM
@PJ Allen
Even though I particularly like the chip that Arduinos use, I haven't pursed the whole thing just because it seemed to avoid learning anything about microcontroller reality in a rigorous sense.
Artists, sketches, and so on do seem to make communication on a nuts and bolts level harder. I am not surprised that such users wander in and out without learning much as they have been buffered from a more mainstream approach.

The dog may have mistook one of the Arduino users for a cat and initiated a chase, but he is not telling.

skylight
09-02-2011, 10:18 PM
Just don't tell us your working commando, that would be way to much information........lol, hey come on I live in the UK. It's too damn cold!!!