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Vaati
05-16-2010, 02:34 AM
What are some really good reasons why someone would want linux on the prop? The reasons have to be supported fairly well, and address a problem that cannot be solved without a prop capable of running linux.


Thanks in advance.

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Leon
05-16-2010, 03:03 AM
Wouldn't it run so slowly that it would be unusable?

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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

Vaati
05-16-2010, 03:16 AM
The point is to make it so it does not run slowly. Here's the goal:

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=862231

It's for a competition for money for college, and the deadline is around late august, early september. The entries need to address a problem or question sufficiently, and include the results of that test or idea.

Imagine for a moment that it is completed and running perfectly on the prop. What problem would it solve; what question would it answer?

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MCU Projects (http://www.mcuprojects.propmodule.com)·- my new site where I will be posting all projects, code, etc.

Quit buying all those fixed voltage regulators, and·get an Adjustable Power Supply (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/130)·for your projects!· Includes an LED testing terminal!

SD Card Adapter (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/158)·- Add extra memory to your next Propeller project with ease!

Reset_Vector
05-16-2010, 03:22 AM
Vaati,

Due to the lack of memory, and the power of the chip, LINUX can't be powered by the propeller.
Be aware that the propeller is a "special" microcontroller and can be used for a lot of applications, but not as a powerfull microprocessor like for example the S3C2440 from SAMSUNG !!
Have a look on FRIENDLY ARM solutions !
Best regards

Mike Green
05-16-2010, 03:31 AM
By getting Linux to run on the Prop-I, tools and techniques would have to be created that would allow lots of other software to be adapted for the Prop-1. Frankly, I don't think it's possible to do given the restrictions, particularly "The code must be running on the bare propeller. No emulating another processor (MIPS for example)". Given the 496 instruction limit for the cogs and 32K bytes in hub memory, that really limits things. You could fool the Spin interpreter to support overlays and these could come from fast EEPROM or SRAM. You do need to clarify (from BradC) whether an LMM interpreter is allowed. That would allow you to use Catalina or ImageCraft's C as a starting point.

Vaati
05-16-2010, 03:53 AM
Mike Green,

I really don't mind whether it fulfills the requirements in BradC's contest or not, but to at least get a functional OS with or without emulation would be fine.
However, what would be necessary to include for it to be considered an OS?

Also, here's why I brought this up:
www.collegeboard.com/siemens/ (http://www.collegeboard.com/siemens/)
Since I am graduating one year early, I need money for college. http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif


Thanks

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MCU Projects (http://www.mcuprojects.propmodule.com)·- my new site where I will be posting all projects, code, etc.

Quit buying all those fixed voltage regulators, and·get an Adjustable Power Supply (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/130)·for your projects!· Includes an LED testing terminal!

SD Card Adapter (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/158)·- Add extra memory to your next Propeller project with ease!

heater
05-16-2010, 04:28 AM
Anyone who wants to run Linux on the Propeller is obviously insane:)

As the Prop is a general purpose, should I say Turing complete, computing machine of course it can be done.

However practically the minimum requirement is to be able to compile Linux to some target architecture that the Propeller can run. That basically means to be able to compile C code with GCC.
At this moment in time my humble ZOG project (GCC for the Prop) is the only way to go.

Please don't waste your life on this endeavour.

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For me, the past is not over yet.

kwinn
05-16-2010, 05:46 AM
Linux and even Minix require substantially more memory than the internal memory in prop1. That means external memory and LMM, and while Linux/Minix might be possible it would run at the speed of an old arthritic snail. Might even be slower than windows boots.

heater
05-16-2010, 05:46 AM
Leon is right.

I would like to refer you to the bogo mips howto tldp.org/HOWTO/BogoMips/bogo-hilo.html (http://tldp.org/HOWTO/BogoMips/bogo-hilo.html)

For sure it can be done, with enough tenacity, but what is te point?

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For me, the past is not over yet.

Mike Green
05-16-2010, 06:04 AM
You ask what is needed for a program or group of programs to be considered an OS. That depends.

Early Operating Systems provided a set of standard input-output operations and some utility functions, mostly having to do with managing mass storage. Modern Operating Systems still provide the same sort of services along with timing, communications, networking, GUI support.

Vaati
05-16-2010, 06:04 AM
The point is to enter a science-fair like competition with a propeller-powered something or other. http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

If it is too hard, I will just give up and try something else.
Does anyone have an alternate suggestion?


Thanks.

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MCU Projects (http://www.mcuprojects.propmodule.com)·- my new site where I will be posting all projects, code, etc.

Quit buying all those fixed voltage regulators, and·get an Adjustable Power Supply (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/130)·for your projects!· Includes an LED testing terminal!

SD Card Adapter (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/158)·- Add extra memory to your next Propeller project with ease!

mikediv
05-16-2010, 07:02 AM
I have to agree . in the beginning I got pretty carried away with the prop and even thought hey why not Linux but I think it was Heater or Jazzed pointed out the prop while an awesome chip and I love working with it

is an MCU ! not a CPU The more I looked into it there is no logical reason to even try to run Linux there is just no upside ,, I think there is probably someone out there or a group of people that could probably get something to run but like I said what for
anything that could be done in Linux can be done without it
There are a few of us here that are working on Prop boards that will also support the 6502 or Z80 I think that makes more sense a multi unit device that has support for a core CPU and the prop or multiple props

Vaati
05-16-2010, 07:10 AM
mikediv,

I must say, I agree. I don't think I would even be up to that sort of programming, even if I had some help...

So, does anyone have some good ideas for a contest entry? The contest is called the Siemens Competition (http://www.collegeboard.com/siemens/), and it would be nice to do something with the prop while having a chance to get some funds for college.

Thanks again for all your (albeit harsh) truths about the incapability of the prop when it comes to linux. http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

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MCU Projects (http://www.mcuprojects.propmodule.com)·- my new site where I will be posting all projects, code, etc.

Quit buying all those fixed voltage regulators, and·get an Adjustable Power Supply (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/130)·for your projects!· Includes an LED testing terminal!

SD Card Adapter (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/158)·- Add extra memory to your next Propeller project with ease!

Cluso99
05-16-2010, 10:10 AM
Someone will do it, but it won't be me. LOL.

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