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View Full Version : Windows 7 just broke my prop clip



johnfl68
12-12-2009, 02:15 AM
OK, not sure what is going on here, PropTool v1.2.6 was working fine in Windows 7 (RC 7100). This morning I went to flash two products so I could ship them out, and kept getting a communications error just at the point where the RAM is finished loading and it was about to be transferred to the EPROM. This happened every time on both products. I tried updated the USB drivers for the prop clip, no change. I have yet to update to the new PropTool, but I don't think it was that.

I switched to my older XP drive (with PropTool v.1.2.6 on it as well) and booted with that drive, and everything worked fine.

So something changed recently in a Windows 7 update that is causing issues, I'm just not sure what.

I will try installing the newer PropTool later tonight or tomorrow, but I don't think that is it, but wanted to give people a heads up, in case others are effected.

John

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Whistler: I want peace on earth and goodwill toward men.
Bernard Abbott: We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Sneakers (1992)

Mike Green
12-12-2009, 03:34 AM
Windows and the Prop Tool sometimes don't get along when Windows is doing some updating or other functions in the background while the Prop Tool is downloading a program. The latest couple of versions of the Prop Tool are supposed to fix this by giving the communications threads a higher priority. Who knows what might change when an update is done.

Rayman
12-12-2009, 04:06 AM
Probably old FTDI drivers... I just finished loading up Win7 on my netbook, I'll have to try it out...

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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm

VIRAND
12-12-2009, 04:35 AM
Windows seems to usually be out of sync with reality, which is probably why when people
try to watch video with it, the sound of someone's voice never matches the moving of their lips,
that is, the drivers for video and audio have different slowness and the stream even reaches
them at different times, or so it seems.

I have one offline windows computer running ONLYPropeller Tool. Even then,
windows churns its hard drive, making temp files and other gunk, that apparently interfere with the
rhythm and flow of data to the Propeller being programmed, that the Propeller times out between
the stuttering of windows at it, and I get a message saying No Propeller on COM Port, or Lost
connection with Propeller, or Can't verify EEPROM, or something, until I clean up all the temp junk
that windows made for itself to trip over. It's a wonder that everyone doesn't notice these problems.
I've seen serial port loopback latencies on Windows NT happen approaching 30 seconds which made
modems unusable. I avoid Windows like "The Plague" (as they say); it is "sickware" (...as in, full of "Viruses").

http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/idea.gif we could make a Puppy Linux "business card" bootable liveCD distro with BST and all the other
things we need for Propeller programming. The downside is that VistaMoWin7 knows about liveCDs and
tends to play sick after people use them, even though they don't even touch the hard drive, because
it assumes that anything unusual is some sort of hack attack for the purpose of connecting a DVR to it,
which is the most deadly sin (BSoD) a mere "consumer" can commit against the V/M/W7 operating system.

Post Edited (VIRAND) : 12/11/2009 8:43:26 PM GMT

Kye
12-12-2009, 10:07 AM
Windows 7 is awsome, if there's a problem with the OS its not the OS's fault, its your computer or all the other software that's been installed on it over time.

...I dunno, I'm a windows lover.

Considering how I play 3D computer video games it requires me to be one. http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Really, since all other versions of windows besides 7 and vista ((yes vista sucked)) were invented arround 2001 its pretty hard to argue that its really bad. I·mean it will have been over·10 years from since it was written.

·http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/jumpin.gif



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Nyamekye,

Michael O'Brien
12-12-2009, 10:34 AM
John,
There was a windows update push yesterday on all my Windows7 machines - I still seem to be fine.
I currently have 5 Windows7 and 10 XP machines and they all run fine. Some disabling of services (indexer, defender, superfetch), is required mostly since vista - the largest being the searchIndexer (windows search)- turn that off and the only HD activity will mostly be your AV software.

Note: If you are running the Professional or Ultimate versions of Windows7 and your processor has virtualization hardware support - you can download Windows XP mode and run a fully functional XP-SP3 virtual machine to run inside Windows7 to verify things.

thank you
/michael

mctrivia
12-12-2009, 11:56 AM
VIRAND the reason you see audio and video out of sync is not windows fault.

the most common reason is pirated movies that have been copied at 30fps instead of 29.97 this slight error causes the audio to shift out of phase by 3.6s/hour

microsoft media player will not correct the error but some other players will.

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VIRAND
12-12-2009, 09:30 PM
mctrivia said...
VIRAND the reason you see audio and video out of sync is not windows fault.

the most common reason is pirated movies that have been copied at 30fps instead of 29.97 this slight error causes the audio to shift out of phase by 3.6s/hour

microsoft media player will not correct the error but some other players will.


OK, so you must agree then that Windows messes up the timing of Propeller serial ports and digital cameras because it
automatically assumes you're pirating movies. I insist that that IS Windows fault!. Why do ten minute videos shift out of phase on Windows computers immediately upon playback, but not through a direct connection to an analog TV?
You specifically said that the audio and video are out of sync in Windows after I did!
You said Windows Media Player will not correct the timing error but others will. We agree on that point too.
Windows controls its own drivers, but Windows cannot or will not sync them in real time, while analog TV syncs perfectly to video.
And so does Linux. So if it is not Windows fault, whose fault can it possibly be?
This is on topic because the Windows synchronization disability is incompatible with reliable Propeller programming.

Nobody pirates movies with a PC. Nobody pirates books at the library with all those copying machines either.

heater
12-12-2009, 09:47 PM
VIRAND: "VistaMoWin7 knows about liveCDs and tends to play sick after people use them"

You might have to elaborate on that for me.

If I boot a live CD, Knoppix say, the CD ROM drive sees it, the BIOS sees it, Knoppix runs. Windows never gets run and the hard drive is never written to.

How on earth could Windows ever know that I did that such that it could play sick?

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For me, the past is not over yet.

Toby Seckshund
12-12-2009, 10:13 PM
The power supply on my PC is dieing. Can I blame Windows for that too ???

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Style and grace : Nil point

wjsteele
12-12-2009, 10:21 PM
Virand, I have no idea what you are actually trying to say here when you say, "OK, so you must agree then that Windows messes up the timing of Propeller serial ports and digital cameras because it automatically assumes you're pirating movies."

Parallax's serial FTDI driver works just fine on every computer I've ever tried it on. I've never had any issues with Windows (any version, including 7) and serial ports working with any Parallax product.

If it was the OSs fault, then I'm sure everyone would have the same problems, which obviously we're not. I currently have 3 different machines (with XP, Vista and Win7 32bit) being used for Propeller development. I also do video processing on the Vista and Win7 machines on a daily basis. On top of that, I normally watch NetFlix and Hulu feeds (or local DVDs) while I am coding. I'm sure that is a combination (that according to your hypothisis) that would trigger a problem, but it hasn't for me.

Bill

Rayman
12-12-2009, 10:37 PM
I may be having an issue too...· Just loaded up the latest PropTool (1.2.7) on my Win7 netbook
and tried downloading an app to my PSB prototype and...
·
it doesn't work!· I'll try to see what's going on...


Never mind...· It's working fine.

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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm

Post Edited (Rayman) : 12/12/2009 2:44:21 PM GMT

Kye
12-12-2009, 11:59 PM
VIRAND - no need to get all uptight. No one here's trying to get at you.

=)

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Nyamekye,

ElectricAye
12-13-2009, 12:05 AM
VIRAND said...
Windows seems to usually be out of sync with reality...
I have one offline windows computer running ONLYPropeller Tool. Even then,
windows churns its hard drive, making temp files and other gunk, that apparently interfere with the
rhythm and flow of data to the Propeller...


Yes, I feel your pain. I, too, am a chronic sufferer and complainer of anything Windows.
It helps to think of your Windows software as an unruly child, one with an attention deficit disorder, who is continuously sneaking around picking up trash from the street or broken bottles from the recycling bin and sticking them into your filing cabinet, or under your pillow, clogging your toilet with them or mixing them into your food. You learn to live with Windows when you must, and use a Mac (or whatever you can afford) for everything else, waiting for the day when the Indians or the Chinese will create an OS that runs as good as Apple but is cheaper than Windows, and puts them both out of business. Windows out of business because they have a deep-seated culture of denial at how clunky their products really are. Apple out of business because people in "developing nations", stacked like cordwood, can and will always work cheaper than anyone else. It's no accident of history that Windows and Prozac emerged to rule the world at approximately the same time.

tdlivings
12-13-2009, 12:16 AM
When I was trying things on the prop scope to send to Hanno I decided to try a different pc just in
case my laptop was part of the issue. Everything installed fine but when I tried to run prop scope
Windows 7 complained about the usb driver and would not use it. I did not pursue it further, just went
to a different pc with xp on it. One I had to hang upside down behind to plug in the usb cable which is
why I did not choose it first Ha.
By the way the laptop and pc gave the same prop scope results.

I assumed there would need to be a Windows 7 upgrade version of the usb driver .

I do have Windows 7 pro and Xp mode is a nice feature. I have Electronics Workbench 9 running on Xp mode
and it works fine as far as I have tried it. They want a small fortune to upgrade it to a version that runs on Vista or
7 if they do 7. $1000 plus for the upgrade.

Tom
·

mctrivia
12-13-2009, 12:38 AM
VIRAND my point is the audio sync error is not windows fault. It is cheap poorly writen software like windows media player(not windows but a program that runs on windows) and microsoft movie editor(also not windows but a poorly writen program that runs on windows). If you get a proffesional grade program like adobe premier to edit video the error will not be there.

also video players like mpcstar are capable of detecting the frame rate error and correcting. Media player does not even try. Weater an oversight, or attempt to annoy people that are pirating I don't know but it is the software's fault for the error not the OS.

Yes it is not only piraters that get caught with this problem. I found this problem while trying to put together a company staff video. It is sad that many of the products out there for video editing seem to think 30 is close enough to 29.97. It is for short clips but not for a half hour movie.

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24 bit LCD Breakout Board now in. $21.99 has backlight driver and touch sensitive decoder. (http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=848975)

heater
12-13-2009, 12:44 AM
tdlivings: I love the way new versions of Windows no have to have virtual machines to run older versions in to keep everything thing that was working, working.

I do this to, I have Linux running XP in a virtual machine. Suns VirtualBox. A solution for me born out of desperation to run the PropTool. No longer needed thanks to BST, thanks to BradC.

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For me, the past is not over yet.

jazzed
12-13-2009, 12:57 AM
mctrivia said...
If you get a proffesional grade program like adobe premier to edit video the error will not be there.


Just curious: how many other programs can you run while adobe premier is creating a video?

@heater, It is fascinating how one has to become a Windows Professional or Ultimate (or VM) user to be able to run older programs :) I think maybe the CFO and accountants have gotten their profit expansion fangs too deeply into the system ... need to sell more software. If they could cure potential users' NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome, they might sell even more software.