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mallred
07-22-2009, 07:00 AM
Dr. Gouge's machine intelligence project to create a truly cognitive android that can think, ask questions, learn, and independently explore and respond to its environment has been featured again in the Sept/Oct issue of ROBOT Magazine. Pages of interest will be 10, 18, and 75 for reader responses, an educational section called LERN, and an independent review of the KISS Debugger by Steve Norris respectively. Pick up a copy of ROBOT at your local newstand to read all about it!

Thanks,

Mark Allred
Machine Intelligence Technologies
support@machineinteltech.com

RossH
07-22-2009, 07:19 AM
Mark,

Posting an extract here would guarantee you some interested readers, and also promote discussion of Dr Jim's efforts. Also, you might consider contributing to the discussion already occuring in the other thread you started about the KISS OS - these forums are not intended to be a one way communication channel for you to promote your own commercial interests.

Ross.

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Catalina - a FREE C compiler for the Propeller - see Catalina (http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=795326)

Post Edited (RossH) : 7/21/2009 11:29:22 PM GMT

mctrivia
07-22-2009, 07:47 AM
If memmory serves me didn't Dr Jim say he would come on here once a week and answer questions and never did.

Also does this article have as many lies as the last?

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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30 (http://propmodule.com/?x=products). PCB available for $5

Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/160) and propmod-1x1 (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/161) are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.

Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com (http://uploader.propmodule.com) for free.

Bill Henning
07-22-2009, 09:40 AM
Mark,

Myself, and several others keep asking reasonable questions - and not receiving any replies at all.

Bill


mallred said...
Dr. Gouge's machine intelligence project to create a truly cognitive android that can think, ask questions, learn, and independently explore and respond to its environment has been featured again in the Sept/Oct issue of ROBOT Magazine. Pages of interest will be 10, 18, and 75 for reader responses, an educational section called LERN, and an independent review of the KISS Debugger by Steve Norris respectively. Pick up a copy of ROBOT at your local newstand to read all about it!

Thanks,

Mark Allred
Machine Intelligence Technologies
support@machineinteltech.com

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www.mikronauts.com (http://www.mikronauts.com) - my site 6.250MHz custom Crystals for running Propellers at 100MHz (http://mikronauts.com/products/mikronauts-625mhz-crystal/)
Las (http://mikronauts.com/products/las-largos-lmm-assembler/) - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos (http://mikronauts.com/products/largos/) - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Morpheus & Mem+ (http://mikronauts.com/products/morpheus/) Advanced dual Propeller SBC with XMM and 256 Color VGA
Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
07-22-2009, 09:52 AM
Mark,

By isolating yourselves from the Propeller community at large, communicating little more than commercial hype, you're relegating your nascient business to perpetual obscurity, if not certain failure. I want to believe that you and Jim have something useful to contribute; but, frankly your methods seem to rub this community the wrong way. What's needed is a significant cultural shift on your part, not ours, or you will lose us.

Thanks for listening,
-Phil

W9GFO
07-22-2009, 09:57 AM
^^^ Him make good words.

Rich H

Microcontrolled
07-22-2009, 10:04 AM
mctrivia said...
If memmory serves me didn't Dr Jim say he would come on here once a week and answer questions and never did.

Also does this article have as many lies as the last?


I agree.

Maybe he is depending on his android to answer the questions and he hasn't gotten it working yet. http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif (There hasn't been any smilys on this thread, so I figured I'd add one)



To Dr. Jim: ether you are an extremely busy man with barely enough spare time to sleep, or you are so concieted and thought driven to yourself that you think you are too intelligent for the others on this forum and think of them as wasted to spend your valuble time answering there questions. If this is it then you have no right to use this forum to sell your overpriced and novelty products, that are only a fraction of the·worth of other contributors FREE software. No one but you sells software on this forum, it is all free. And to sell it with HARDWARE????

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Toys are microcontroled.
Robots are microcontroled.
I am microcontroled.


If it's not Parallax then don't even bother. :-)
·

Mini-Din/PS2 connectors are for sale! 5 for $1! PM me if you wish to make an order.
Cheap·shipping unless specified!··········150 left!!··

mctrivia
07-22-2009, 10:21 AM
Microcontroled you are wrong Hano sells an amazing piece of software called viewport

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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30 (http://propmodule.com/?x=products). PCB available for $5

Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/160) and propmod-1x1 (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/161) are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.

Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com (http://uploader.propmodule.com) for free.

mallred
07-22-2009, 10:23 AM
Your hostility from day one has relegated this forum to an announcement only platform.

We have customers from this forum which we value and wish to keep informed. This is the only reason we continue to post.

You have driven us away and ridiculed us since our very first post. That's ok. Stay in the dark ages. The rest will come where we are taking them and will be quantum leaps ahead of the rest of you.

You are far too quick to criticize something you do not understand and slow to contribute any constructive ideas for research.

Your type of criticizim has been around as long as recorded history and always aimed at those that are doing true innovative research.

We are a small group putting so much energy into true research and development that we do not have time to argue petty points that are based on incorrect assumptions. Your "discussions" are not going to further the research horizons.

If you have any respectful questions of substance, please submit them to our website and we will answer them as time permits.

We do not spend our time monitoring these conversations as do many of you. We have real work to do.

Many of you want something for nothing. Dr. Jim has invented this technology on his own over many years and it is indeed for sale, not for free. We are attempting to hold costs down as much as possible for the benefit of those who do not have a lot of money to invest in a project. Only this project will be a research platform, not a toy.

"Lies" only means you do not understand our approach. Your tone is disrespectful and will not be acknowledged.


Respectfully,

Dr. Jim
Mark Allred

b.p.m.
07-22-2009, 10:36 AM
me doth think they protest too much.

if anyone thinks that they can create any kind of serious AI with a prop
and a few MBs of ram is either seriously delusional or snakeoil salesmen.
i suspect the latter. this is no better than your typical e-mail scam.
we all love the prop but we're not fools.

blake

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Bart Simpson

RossH
07-22-2009, 10:39 AM
@mctrivia, microcontrolled ...

No-one minds people advising others of products they have for sale via these forums - the key point is that the forums are not to be used JUST to advertise. If you're not willing to participate in discussion about your product - accepting suggestions, responding to questions, offering assistance, etc etc - then why bother? All you will do (as Mark continues to demonstrate) is antagonize the very people you are trying to sell your product to.

@Mark ...

You have been invited to contribute to technical discussions about your products many times in many threads, and have chosen not to do so. People are getting frustrated at your lack of respect for these forums and the people who contribute to them freely. Contributing doesn't mean offering your products for nothing - it means being willing to discuss your products and answer reasonable questions about them. If you believe you have something new to offer, be prepared to educate others on why they should use your products - instead of just making unsupported pronouncements about how wonderful they WILL BE when finished, and then expecting the world to flock to your door.

Until you are prepared to do so, I for one would rather you didn't post at all - although I do get an occasional chuckle from reading your posts.

Ross.

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Catalina - a FREE C compiler for the Propeller - see Catalina (http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=795326)

W9GFO
07-22-2009, 10:41 AM
mallred said...

You are far too quick to criticize something you do not understand and slow to contribute any constructive ideas for research.

Your type of criticizim has been around as long as recorded history and always aimed at those that are doing true innovative research... We have real work to do.

Many of you want something for nothing. ....Only this project will be a research platform, not a toy...

Respectfully,

Dr. Jim
Mark Allred


http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Ahhh, I think your full of it!

I look forward to eating my words when you can demonstrate your AI - on a Prop(s).

Rich H

mctrivia
07-22-2009, 10:42 AM
I am willing to give benefit of doubt about ai. Will pay nothing until I see it though.

What rubs me is they answer none of the technical questions asked, and in there article they lie about there bloated kiss debugger being the only one. I would like to see there independent reviewer review all the debuggers out there.

My money would be on viewport getting best review

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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30 (http://propmodule.com/?x=products). PCB available for $5

Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/160) and propmod-1x1 (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/161) are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.

Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com (http://uploader.propmodule.com) for free.

Hanno
07-22-2009, 10:55 AM
A couple months ago Mark/Dr. Jim promised "true AI on the Propeller real soon".
I promised to eat a Protoboard if someone could pass the Turing test with a Propeller. Needless to say, I'm still waiting.

I think Dr. Jim and Mark Allred are doing a great DISservice to people doing real research into AI. Every dollar, magazine article, and discussion that is wasted on them is taken from those that are doing real work. Sadly, the field of AI is littered with false promises and lies- it's very easy to promise something, hide one's products and cook up false demos. It's much harder to deliver product that solves real problems.
I'm glad to see members of this board continually asking for proof and pointing out the lies continually fed to us.

Moderator- please consider banning Dr. Jim and Mark from this forum. While these discussions are good drama, they take away from all that is good on this forum. Newcomers coming to this forum for the first time typically see people helping each other and members contributing to each other's projects- let's keep it that way. One way announcements of highly questionable products should not be tolerated.
Hanno

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
07-22-2009, 10:56 AM
mallred said...
Your hostility from day one has relegated this forum to an announcement only platform.

When was it anything else?


mallred said...
You are far too quick to criticize something you do not understand and slow to contribute any constructive ideas for research.

We want to understand. We just haven't been given any meat to digest. Moreover, the contributions from members of this forum speak for themselves, including a wealth of useful objects in the OBEX. We have nothing to be ashamed of.


mallred said...
We do not spend our time monitoring these conversations as do many of you. We have real work to do.

We all have real work to do. Some of us make a living supporting the Propeller and other Parallax products. And the forum is our "ear to the ground" that keeps us from laboring in pointless isolation from our customers and their needs.


mallred said...
Only this project will be a research platform, not a toy.

Your tone is not only presumptuous but condescending and pretty much sums up the attitude that gives the members of this forum so much trouble.

I've been patient, up to this point, and willing to provide you guys the benefit of the doubt. I'm not easily moved to anger. But, Mark, I'm afraid your last post has crossed the line and has laid bare the contempt that you and Jim hold for the Propeller community and, by extension, for your own customers. Any hope of reconciliation at this point has one foot in the grave and he other on a banana peel.

Good luck. You'll need it.
-Phil

Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 7/22/2009 3:02:27 AM GMT

SRLM
07-22-2009, 11:14 AM
mallred said...
The rest will come where we are taking them and will be quantum leaps ahead of the rest of you.


Ah. I get it. You're Moses and Dr. Jim is God. That clears up lots of things...

TreeLab
07-22-2009, 11:17 AM
Greetings All;

With all due respect, I think that this is getting out of hand. Look, if you want to see Dr Jim's thoughts, go to his 'corner' web site, and judge for yourself if there is any insight there. I have, I've decided.

If you think there is merit, discuss it!

If you think this is all smoke and mirrors, or snake-oil, or even just bad form, the WORST thing to do is to perpetuate a forum discussion on it. Let the thing fall below everyone's radar, and die an ignoble death due to lack of interest.

This reminds me of a cartoon where a hubby is staying up late working on the computer, telling his wife that he found that 'somebody is wrong on the internet' and he is honour bound to correct the poor soul. Please, let's stop wasting creative energy on this type of debate that really doesn't go very far, and never has. Remember how well language wars went?

Cheers!
Paul Rowntree

Post Edited (TreeLab) : 7/22/2009 3:22:15 AM GMT

WNed
07-22-2009, 11:35 AM
@Mallred - You insist that those who do not follow the good doctor on his righteous path are doomed to be left in the Dark Ages. You tout Dr. Gouge's articles in Robot magazine... I, personally, would be a lot more impressed if this great researcher and developer were to be published in the journal of the Cognitive Science Society, of which I am a member. In fact, I happen to be reading a book entitled "Essential Psychopharmacology: Neuroscientific Basics and Practical Applications" to update myself on more recent findings in neurophysiology. I have designs on using the Propeller in modeling actual, biological brain processes, thus my interest in a very interesting multi-Prop board designed by a forum member with the handle mctrivia. I mentioned this design in one of your first threads here, but I doubt either you or the Doctor gave it so much as a glance, because you are on the righteous path to enlightenment. You use terms like "synaptic learning" that belie even a basic understanding of true brain function and the learning process. Your focus on "more memory!" and mainframe techniques illustrates that, in fact, You are the ones left back in the Dark Ages.
A biological brain is a massive, dynamic switching network. One reasonable starting hypothesis is to use different frequencies as analogs for the various neural transmitter chemicals so that a switching network of processors, like a bank of Propeller chips, can act as a simple ganglionic node with actual synaptic connections. And here the word "synaptic" is used with its proper neurophysiological meaning.
In seeking the light, you may want to borrow flame from others lest you walk over a cliff.

Ned

Added: TreeLab is right.

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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno

Post Edited (WNed) : 7/22/2009 4:25:10 PM GMT

mctrivia
07-22-2009, 11:36 AM
Treelab This is not an advertising site. Paralax graciously let's us do so and I am thankful but that is not the purpose of it. The purpose of this site is to talk about ideas. They should not expect us to go to there site to ask questions. If they want to report something they should answer the questions they get.

I second a ban for abuse of the forum

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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30 (http://propmodule.com/?x=products). PCB available for $5

Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/160) and propmod-1x1 (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/161) are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.

Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com (http://uploader.propmodule.com) for free.

Post Edited (mctrivia) : 7/22/2009 3:43:44 AM GMT

Philldapill
07-22-2009, 11:46 AM
Third.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
07-22-2009, 11:47 AM
I'm steadfastly against any kind of ban. It's an open forum, and Mark and Jim's contributions — such that they are — are, at the very least, on-topic. It's not like they're trying to sell fake Swiss watches or Viagra, after all. To ban them would be to succumb to their arrogance and condescension, which sends entirely the wrong message. I believe that, without any moderation whatsoever, we've managed to make our point. The next move is theirs.

-Phil

potatohead
07-22-2009, 11:56 AM
This post intentionally left blank.

(I like this way much better --thanks Heater!)

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Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness! (http://propeller.wikispaces.com/)
Chat in real time with other Propellerheads on IRC #propeller @ freenode.net (http://propeller.wikispaces.com/Join+us+on+IRC%21/)
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!

Post Edited (potatohead) : 7/22/2009 7:40:18 AM GMT

Bill Henning
07-22-2009, 12:00 PM
Agreed.

I am against a ban as well - however I must admit to not liking them ignoring any kind of technical questions.


Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) said...
I'm steadfastly against any kind of ban. It's an open forum, and Mark and Jim's contributions — such that they are — are, at the very least, on-topic. It's not like they're trying to sell fake Swiss watches or Viagra, after all. To ban them would be to succumb to their arrogance and condescension, which sends entirely the wrong message. I believe that, without any moderation whatsoever, we've managed to make our point. The next move is theirs.

-Phil

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www.mikronauts.com (http://www.mikronauts.com) - my site 6.250MHz custom Crystals for running Propellers at 100MHz (http://mikronauts.com/products/mikronauts-625mhz-crystal/)
Las (http://mikronauts.com/products/las-largos-lmm-assembler/) - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos (http://mikronauts.com/products/largos/) - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Morpheus & Mem+ (http://mikronauts.com/products/morpheus/) Advanced dual Propeller SBC with XMM and 256 Color VGA
Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full

Ron Sutcliffe
07-22-2009, 12:12 PM
This thread does reveal an important point.

Anyone, who makes a claim to some idea, should be obliged to field questions about the nature of their claim. It is irritating when the answers just continue to promote the idea and do not address the question.

Hanno will not have to put a Proto Board through the blender that’s a safe bet.

Ron

lonesock
07-22-2009, 12:23 PM
I love these threads! But enough about me [8^)

Just some random observations:

1 - The good doctor has some interesting ideas on AI, IMO. Specifically (correct me if I'm wrong, there doesn't seem to be much clear explanation from the horse's mouth, as it were) using a type of Error Correcting Code as a hash / index / PCA / eigenvector for information streams (trying to use the terminology from the articles scanned into the OP's website, but I have a lousy memory [8^). I do think this is an interesting idea, though I'm not sure how it is better than traditional methods (for example if you would like, I have some C++ code for doing multi-dimensional clustering into hyper-discs...kind of a "Batch Neural Gas" with a smarter distance function, where the resulting clusters have a personality vector, and it's pretty darn fast to boot [8^).)

2 - If I were, hypothetically speaking, working on some high speed MMC/SD/SDHC access routines, and I was offering them for free with a MIT license good for commercial or personal use, and then somebody came along and offered to sell me and everyone on the forum a slower, bloated version of the same code, I _might_ be a little put out. Now I notice you aren't selling any single-license SD access routines (but it's never too late, right?), but there does seem to be a servo controller on your site. Oh, and a debugger. I think there's something called the OBEX, if only I could find the link (http://obex.parallax.com/)...

3 - Maybe this is just me, but I find implementing new algorithms on the PC (where there _is_ excellent debugging support) is critical. Feel free to ignore me, but I would recommend getting it working on the PC, maybe publish a few papers and grab a few patents (I read your patent mentioned in the ROBOT article). If you need parallel processing, you can buy a GeForce 8600 for ~ $50, and use CUDA in a commodity PC for some serious power. Not to say this is the case, but from the lack of papers etc. I'm rather assuming that you are thinking along the lines of "Well, I can't get my ideas to work on a PC, maybe if I ported it to a new parallel architecture with limited debugging support and not HW MAD instructions it will work!"

4 - I found your "dark ages" post to be somewhat...hmmm...well, I won't go there. On average is hasn't worsened my opinion of you, read that as you may. I think my overall emotional response to your posts would be qualified as "amusement", so please don't stop on my account.

5 - There are some brilliant people on this forum. I would recommend trying to win them over to help you work on aspects of your project. This may not be an option now, of course, but hey, my lousy advice is free! Even if the final product is not useful to the majority of us peasants [ [8^) ] who frequent these forums, I'm sure there will be some valuable tech/SW developed during the course of your project.

6 - "Your tone is disrespectful and will not be acknowledged." This is a masterful restatement of the principle most commonly found in the form "This page left intentionally blank." [8^)

OK, sorry for the bemused semi-rant. I'm off to go criticize stuff I don't understand.

Jonathan

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lonesock
Piranha are people too.

waltc
07-22-2009, 01:54 PM
Dr. Jim reminds me of the some of self-proclaimed AI/AL gurus of the mid 1980's who made all sorts of fantastic pronouncements only to be later proven dead wrong or mocked for their arrogance/stupidity.

Their careers seemed to take the same route Symbolics took as well.

heater
07-22-2009, 02:19 PM
This post left intentionally blank.





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For me, the past is not over yet.

Nick Mueller
07-22-2009, 03:50 PM
> We are a small group putting so much energy into true research and development that we do not have time to argue petty
> points that are based on incorrect assumptions. Your "discussions" are not going to further the research horizons.

I'm ignorant! There are a *lot* of things outside of my horizont.
But when I stumble over something that is within my domain of interests I try to get some quick picture what that thing is and what the idea behind it actually is. But this needs some *explanation*. Not just buzzwords or a "you are to stupid to understand. Take that or forget it".

Your way of informing an audience with buzz-word-loaded hype will only attract people that will never understand anything about what you do.
Here, you find technically interested people. And you get them with some *facts* and not with blabla. As soon as you -at least- scetched the whys and hows you'll get a discussion.

Not this way!

Nick

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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!

The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO (http://www.yadro.de)

ImageCraft
07-22-2009, 04:49 PM
I love Mentifex: http://www.nothingisreal.com/mentifex_faq.html. His posts were so... interesting.

I got into Subsumption big time too!!! Rodney Brooks was/is my hero. I did my master thesis on subsumption kernel and ImageCraft was started to sell a subsumption OS. Sadly, his COG (the robot) never gains the intelligence...

Then there's Society of Mind. Not quite exactly what Minsky was saying though.

At least Roger Penrose I kinda understand - no quantum uncertainy in your wetware - no intelligence.

They were talking the difference between adult and children's brains on the newspaper (Stanford Research etc.) and I kept wondering how it can apply to AI http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Bring it on, Dr. Jim!

Leon
07-22-2009, 07:22 PM
waltc said...
Dr. Jim reminds me of the some of self-proclaimed AI/AL gurus of the mid 1980's who made all sorts of fantastic pronouncements only to be later proven dead wrong or mocked for their arrogance/stupidity.

Their careers seemed to take the same route Symbolics took as well.


What was wrong with Symbolics? They made superb systems for the time, and they were very successful. They eventually failed because conventional processors could run LISP code just as fast.

Leon

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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

Microcontrolled
07-22-2009, 07:32 PM
mallred said...
Your hostility from day one has relegated this forum to an announcement only platform.

We have customers from this forum which we value and wish to keep informed. This is the only reason we continue to post.

You have driven us away and ridiculed us since our very first post. That's ok. Stay in the dark ages. The rest will come where we are taking them and will be quantum leaps ahead of the rest of you.

You are far too quick to criticize something you do not understand and slow to contribute any constructive ideas for research.

Your type of criticizim has been around as long as recorded history and always aimed at those that are doing true innovative research.

We are a small group putting so much energy into true research and development that we do not have time to argue petty points that are based on incorrect assumptions. Your "discussions" are not going to further the research horizons.

If you have any respectful questions of substance, please submit them to our website and we will answer them as time permits......

We do not spend our time monitoring these conversations as do many of you. We have real work to do......

·Only this project will be a research platform, not a toy.......
.
"Lies" only means you do not understand our approach. Your tone is disrespectful and will not be acknowledged.


Respectfully,

Dr. Jim
Mark Allred


OMG!!!! He is full of himself!!!
REAL work to do?!?!?!····· "...When we re Quantnum Leaps ahead of you"?!?!?!?!
How could someone even DARE to write that among such great forum contributors who have given so much help to this forum?!?!?!?!

@mictrivia: When I said "software" I ment Propeller programs. I have sold things on the forum before but it is justified with the fair amount of contribution I give the forum.

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Toys are microcontroled.
Robots are microcontroled.
I am microcontroled.


If it's not Parallax then don't even bother. :-)
·

Mini-Din/PS2 connectors are for sale! 5 for $1! PM me if you wish to make an order.
Cheap·shipping unless specified!··········150 left!!··

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)
07-22-2009, 08:56 PM
Wow... This thread is on the edge of being hostile.
(Strange for this forum group.)

Does Parallax have the same deal with ROBOT that they have for N&V for
the republishing of their articles? I'd like to give the second article a good
read before making comment.

Any meat in the second article at all???

I can't remember of Borders still carries the rag of not...

OBC

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New to the Propeller?

Visit the: The Propeller Pages (http://www.warrantyvoid.us/tiki-index.php?page=Propeller) @ Warranty Void.

kwinn
07-22-2009, 09:55 PM
You know the old expression "the proof is in the pudding", well so far we haven't even seen any pudding, never mind having a taste.

WNed
07-23-2009, 12:41 AM
I'm with Phil on the topic of banning... besides, I rather doubt that an actual ban will be needed at this point.
Do they really "disrupt" the forum? Hell, even the Autobahn has a good wreck now and then (were they pulling Lonesock's body out the last time I drove by?).
And come on, it's not like they're selling shoes, like that guy last week. I don't think we had any fun with that post at all, whereas the Mallred/Gouge posts are quite, ummm, entertaining. In fact, given the definition, "Art is that which elicits an emotional response", I would say that these threads belong in a gallery somewhere!

Ned

Added: Just had a look at the link from ImageCraft Mark regarding Mentiflex. Thanks, man, that stuff is priceless!

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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno

Post Edited (WNed) : 7/22/2009 5:05:32 PM GMT

lonesock
07-23-2009, 01:03 AM
WNed said...
...(were they pulling Lonesock's body out the last time I drove by?)...

[8^) Yep. The "Official" story is that I had a few too many Dr. Peppers before driving home, but it was really ninjas, hired by a secretive group of A.I. researchers, know only as "The Priory of Robbie"!

Jonathan

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lonesock
Piranha are people too.

Ken Gracey
07-23-2009, 01:03 AM
We don't ban people from the forums unless they break our rules (primarily related to vulgar language, obscene content, spamming, duplicate logins, posting material inappropriate for youth participants, etc.). Therefore, members Mallred and Dr. Gouge are certainly welcome and encouraged participants on the forum; nothing has been posted that comes close to breaking the rules as we have defined them.

On a separate note, their project contributes to the looming shortage of P8X32A-D40s. . .

I've asked ROBOT if they are interested in making an excerpt or the entire article available to the forums. We will respect their response since their income depends on sales of printed magazines and advertisements.

Ken Gracey
Parallax Inc.

Philldapill
07-23-2009, 02:58 AM
Quantum leaps ahead, huh? If you did your homework, before being so condecending, you'd find that this forum is chalk FULL of extremely intelligent people ready for an intelligent conversation. The following link is case in point:

http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=15&m=369144

CounterRotatingProps
07-23-2009, 03:31 AM
> The rest will come ... and will be quantum leaps ahead of the rest of you.

As the posts don't fall to the level of banishment - but many of us are irritated (me too) by fluff with no data - I'd respectfully suggest we let that quote stand for itself.

It reminds me of resumes we get at our office that say things like "Proficient in komputers, encluding Word and Outlook."

Eh? My Numero Uno favorite oxymoron: "quantum leap"

A "quantum"·is the absolute *smallest* possible quantity of energy change. Sooo ... right ... they aren't really lying are they?

<G>

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Post Edited (CounterRotatingProps) : 7/22/2009 7:53:23 PM GMT

Microcontrolled
07-23-2009, 03:37 AM
He is apperently unaware that there are people on this forum (not me!!) who are more intelligent then him. The problem is that he thinks that just because he is in a "special" field of science that it justifies him as more intelligent.

Poeple on this forum will understand your project. Tell them!!

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Toys are microcontroled.
Robots are microcontroled.
I am microcontroled.


If it's not Parallax then don't even bother. :-)
·

Mini-Din/PS2 connectors are for sale! 5 for $1! PM me if you wish to make an order.
Cheap·shipping unless specified!··········150 left!!··

Mike Green
07-23-2009, 03:43 AM
Actually "quantum leap" is not an oxymoron. It is the smallest quantity of added energy that will make a change in the state of a system. Smaller amounts of energy will not change the state. When someone talks about making a quantum leap, it would be a change of state, perhaps in the world, perhaps to a new way of thinking, that could not have happened without that particular (or larger) change of energy / thought / ideas. It's still trite these days.

Duffer
07-23-2009, 03:52 AM
I·find posts like these mildly entertaining if I'm in the mood, but I tend to exercise my own "ban-ishment" prerogative by clicking on the "Ignore Posts From Xxxxxxxx" (Thumb-down Icon) on the upper-right of the offending or irritating post. Instead of engaging posters that·one finds irritating, just ignore them. Remember: "no one likes being alone in cyberspace" The ideal situation (in my mind)·would be for the poster to send a message to the forum administrators asking if the forum was down because they get no response. ;-)

Nevertheless,·for those·who enjoy throwing gasoline on an open fire, help yourself. Sometimes I like to watch (from a safe distance).

Duffer


Post Edited (Duffer) : 7/22/2009 8:03:41 PM GMT

Nick Mueller
07-23-2009, 04:00 AM
> Poeple on this forum will understand your project. Tell them!!

You can find out by yourself:
Go to the webpage. See videos #4..#6 of Dr. Jim.
Download the two articles from that robot-mag (forgot the name, already deleted here) and read them.
You'll find a few keywords, read between the lines. Especially the last quarter on the last page of the second article.


Nick

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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!

The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO (http://www.yadro.de)

Post Edited (Nick Mueller) : 7/22/2009 8:27:31 PM GMT

CounterRotatingProps
07-23-2009, 04:05 AM
Mike, I understand what you mean in that a small change can have a big impact. But these guys aren't the butterfly's wings flapping in Texas. (Although perhaps they are Chaos.) And the origin of quantum leap in marketing was because it sounded modern, powerful, and cool - but few using it understood the irony ... and *then* it became a substitute for big things.

The misuse of quantum leap would more evident if it were translated it to: "We've made an infinitesimal leap forward!"

I maintain that it's oxymoronic even more so in the trite context it's used in. Quanta are the smallest possible *measurable* things, which is not necessarily the smallest quantity of added energy that would affect a system.

"In physics, a quantum (plural: quanta) is an *indivisible* entity of a quantity" - wiki "quantum"

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mctrivia
07-23-2009, 04:09 AM
It is still not an oxymoron because it does not contradict itself

Jumbo shrimp

Is an oxymoron because the words mean oposits of each other

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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30 (http://propmodule.com/?x=products). PCB available for $5

Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/160) and propmod-1x1 (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/161) are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.

Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com (http://uploader.propmodule.com) for free.

ericball
07-23-2009, 04:21 AM
mallred said...
Your hostility from day one has relegated this forum to an announcement only platform.

I find this comment rather suprising as I find the other members of this forums are typically accomodating to a fault - especially to those seeking knowledge and assistance.· (As opposed to other forums, and localroger can tell you stories, where "if you can't stand the heat" is the rule.)· The responses you received certainly weren't enough to justify your response· (Although now that you have lashed out, "cry havok".)
But do realize that we are all here because we think the Propeller is a cool product and are interested in other people's·projects - even if we may never use them ourselves.· And I'm sure Parallax wants as many commercial users as possible to use the Propeller.· So I hope you do keep the forum informed about your projects, although you may get a better response if you do take the time to do more than simply announce them.

Yoda said...
you will find only what you bring with you

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Composite NTSC sprite driver: Forum (http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=800114)
NTSC & PAL driver templates: ObEx (http://obex.parallax.com/objects/483/) Forum (http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=803904)
OnePinTVText driver: ObEx (http://obex.parallax.com/objects/480/) Forum (http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=822453)

W9GFO
07-23-2009, 04:22 AM
Nick Mueller said...

You can find out by yourself:
Go to the webpage. See videos #4..#6 of Dr. Joe.
Nick


A link to video #4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ine8sKvXzNo&feature=channel). I think this is what you are referring to.

Rich H

Nick Mueller
07-23-2009, 04:30 AM
Yes, these vids. #5 and #6 have more infor ... infan ... I forgot the English word, sorry! http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Oh, and sorry, I didn't want to say "Dr. Joe" it's Dr. Jim!

Nick

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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!

The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO (http://www.yadro.de)

mctrivia
07-23-2009, 04:33 AM
Can't see youtube

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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30 (http://propmodule.com/?x=products). PCB available for $5

Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/160) and propmod-1x1 (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/161) are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.

Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com (http://uploader.propmodule.com) for free.

W9GFO
07-23-2009, 04:36 AM
mctrivia said...
Can't see youtube


At all?

Rich H

mctrivia
07-23-2009, 04:50 AM
Nope either rim or mts blocks the video stream. I can see the page

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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30 (http://propmodule.com/?x=products). PCB available for $5

Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/160) and propmod-1x1 (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/161) are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.

Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com (http://uploader.propmodule.com) for free.

WNed
07-23-2009, 05:31 AM
Having viewed the clips, Dr. Jim seems to be an affable fellow who would fit right in here. What the Hell happened?!
...and Dr. Jim, I don't figure you'll ever read this, but a neuron is more like a summing amp than a switch... some even have inverters.

Ned

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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno

Leon
07-23-2009, 05:35 AM
The lady wiring a terminal on a Propeller Proto board in one of those clips seems to be remarkably cack-handed. I hope she isn't assembling their products. Dr Jim ought to buy her a proper pair of wire-strippers.

Leon

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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

Post Edited (Leon) : 7/22/2009 9:43:28 PM GMT

mctrivia
07-23-2009, 05:39 AM
Dr jim from the one post I know of that he made on here seemed nice.

I suspect the biggest problem is mallred does not know what he is talking about and dr jim may not realize how much he is doing has already been done.

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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30 (http://propmodule.com/?x=products). PCB available for $5

Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/160) and propmod-1x1 (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/161) are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.

Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com (http://uploader.propmodule.com) for free.

rokicki
07-23-2009, 05:53 AM
waltc said...
Their careers seemed to take the same route Symbolics took as well.


You wouldn't say this if you had ever used a Symbolics Lisp machine.

The incredibly faster machines of today do not even *approach* the productivity of the
Symbolics machines. Coding on those machines was like driving Ferrari, while Windows
environments and most IDEs are much more like tricycles.

Bergamot
07-23-2009, 07:58 AM
rokicki said...

waltc said...
Their careers seemed to take the same route Symbolics took as well.


You wouldn't say this if you had ever used a Symbolics Lisp machine.

The incredibly faster machines of today do not even *approach* the productivity of the
Symbolics machines. Coding on those machines was like driving Ferrari, while Windows
environments and most IDEs are much more like tricycles.

Hyperbole much? http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

ImageCraft
07-23-2009, 08:43 AM
I know a NASA contractor, whose work have been in the last few Mars missions and others, still uses a Symbolic machine for his work. It just works better for him.

Timothy D. Swieter
07-23-2009, 08:52 AM
Boy, I think I missed something. Besides the couple opening rough posts in this thread, I think I missed some other threads that must have gone awry.

From a very cursory look at Dr. Jim's web site and YouTube items it appears he has been creating a lot of content and buzz around the Propeller. I admittedly don't understand it all because my technical focuses are in other areas. I hope Dr. Jim does come back and help to build a community around the products and advances he is making. I am intrigue myself.

However I can see how the relationship is strained at the moment. I think I better do some research to better understand the past thread and forum topics.

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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com (http://www.brilldea.com) - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, 3.0" LCD Composite video display, eProto for SunSPOT
www.tdswieter.com (http://www.tdswieter.com)

RossH
07-23-2009, 10:14 AM
I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but it seems to have a life of its own (and anyway I'm at work now and can't work on my Prop for hours yet) ... so I will ... http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I think the main reason this thread just refuses to die is that there is such a lot of interest in the area Mark/Dr Jim are working in. Even though I'm with Hanno and don't believe any machine based on the Propeller is ever going to pass the Turing Test (well, maybe on the Prop II ...) it is natural that any group of people interested in a parallel processor is also going to be interested in the greatest parallel processor of them all - the brain - and any attempts to emulate it.

So Mark is posting in the right forum, and his posts should generate quite an interesting discussion. Unfortunately, he just doesn't seem to know how to approach it correctly. It is quite natural that some of the forum members will know at least as much about the subject as he or Dr Jim appear to - some will probably know a lot more. And it is also quite natural that such a group will not accept mere unsupported and implausible pronouncements at face value. Even if they did so, they would still naturally ask lots of technical questions and expect some reasonable attempt at an answer. Many would be happy with answers as simple as "well, we don't exactly know yet, but here's what we're currently working on ...". If he did this, Mark would probably find himself inundated with encouragement and offers of assistance.

But every thread Mark starts seems to go much the same way - i.e. an unsupported announcement from Mark promising something REAL SOON NOWTM, followed by increasingly frustrated questions and requests for more information from the forum members, followed by equally frustrated outbursts by Mark and/or Dr Jim (but this time laced with apparent disdain for the very audience he is attempting to woo) ... but no additional information. Then silence ... until the next time.

If Mark and Dr Jim want to sell their products they should be prepared to answer reasonable (or even silly) questions about them. If they want help with their products they could just try asking for it - a bit of humilty would be nice, but is not mandatory since many people on this forum appear quite willing to respond even to very rude demands for assistance. It's even ok if they just want to be admired for their cleverness - but they should be prepared to provide some evidence, and not just storm off in a huff whenever their audience doesn't automatically fall to their knees.

Over to Mark and Dr Jim ...

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Catalina - a FREE C compiler for the Propeller - see Catalina (http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=795326)

rokicki
07-23-2009, 10:25 AM
Bergamot said...

rokicki said...

waltc said...
Their careers seemed to take the same route Symbolics took as well.


You wouldn't say this if you had ever used a Symbolics Lisp machine.

The incredibly faster machines of today do not even *approach* the productivity of the
Symbolics machines. Coding on those machines was like driving Ferrari, while Windows
environments and most IDEs are much more like tricycles.

Hyperbole much? http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif


Come back to me after you've used these machines and tell me what you think.

Hanno
07-23-2009, 10:38 AM
Very well put RossH. Yes, it's a shame that Dr.Jim and Mark are having such a tough time on this forum. They are doing some good stuff, but unfortunately their marketing and communication methods aren't working for them. If they just talked about the technical details of what they've actually accomplished I'm sure they would get a lot of respect from everyone here- including me. Would be wonderful if they spent some time lurking and reading through some topics- this forum is wonderful!
Hanno

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Download (http://mydancebot.com) a free trial of ViewPort- the premier visual debugger for the Propeller
Includes full debugger, simulated instruments, fuzzy logic, and OpenCV for computer vision. Now a Parallax Product!

WNed
07-23-2009, 11:24 AM
Clearly Dr. Gouge is not interested in an open exchange of ideas and knowledge. Dr, Gouge is interested in patenting "intelligence". He is selling proprietary modules to pay for his efforts. Good luck, Dr. G. Those of us just "playing around" out here will have to suffice with having dozens and dozens of highly qualified hobbyists and engineers designing hardware and software for and with us...

Ned

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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno

Leon
07-23-2009, 06:51 PM
rokicki said...

Bergamot said...

rokicki said...

waltc said...
Their careers seemed to take the same route Symbolics took as well.


You wouldn't say this if you had ever used a Symbolics Lisp machine.

The incredibly faster machines of today do not even *approach* the productivity of the
Symbolics machines. Coding on those machines was like driving Ferrari, while Windows
environments and most IDEs are much more like tricycles.

Hyperbole much? http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif


Come back to me after you've used these machines and tell me what you think.


Peter Paine collects Symbolics LISP machines and has a good explanation of why they are so unique:

www.asl.dsl.pipex.com/symbolics/ (http://www.asl.dsl.pipex.com/symbolics/)

I visited Peter 25 years ago and he let play with his Symbolics 'personal computer' (the top of the range 3600). At the time he was using it for consultancy work for the UK military and was spending a phenomenal amount each month on his maintenance contract (they are very complex machines). When I contacted him a couple of years ago he offered me one for nothing. I might still take him up on the offer.

Leon

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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

Post Edited (Leon) : 7/23/2009 11:03:41 AM GMT

Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)
07-25-2009, 03:46 AM
Re: Some of the rude comments that were posted on the various Dr Jim threads.:

While it fine to disagree with or to challenge a post/poster, remember that allot of younger people read the post on here and are potentially easily influenced by our behaviour (good or bad) . We should set an example for them. When I don't like a post I just ignore it.

Re: Dr Jim's project:

I enjoying learning what I can about his project. Even though questions about his project have not been answered directly on this forum, everyone was invited to ask questions on his website.

================================================== ================================================== ======================================

Link to his article: ( From his website : Robot Magazine July-August 2009 issue. Dr. Jim's first major article on machine intelligence for Robot Magazine. A very interesting perspective. )
machineinteltech.com/RobotMag7-09.pdf (http://machineinteltech.com/RobotMag7-09.pdf )

================================================== ================================================== ======================================
How his new technology works: His new idea/s is/are based on how ECC codes work and related to the patent below:

Patent Application Info (refered to in the article above : Robot Magazine July-August 2009 issue):

United States Patent 5,267,328
Gouge November 30, 1993
Method for selecting distinctive pattern information from a pixel generated image

Abstract

This invention describes methods and apparatus for the radial extraction and pattern recognition of image information based on "back scatter" produced by focused beam of energy such as those used in radar, sonar, and ultrasound. This invention includes methods for line and geometric pattern extraction and recognition from an image based on a pixel array. In the present invention, the information obtained from "back scatter" energy extracted and encoded by the radial extraction algorithms becomes determinants to be used either individually or in concert with each other depending upon the application and desired function. The line and geometric pattern algorithms can be used to process any type of image. These algorithms which extract and encode the patterns contained in the "back scatter" and geometric shapes contained in images are unique and provide an evaluation of various multidimensional aspects of groups of pixels in the resultant image. In addition, these algorithms are not based upon strict mathematical concepts but are rather translated to the computer in terms of bit strings which require very little processing time. The disclosed methods are designed for efficient image processing in real time on PC-type computer equipment.

ECC Reference:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_detection_and_correction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_detection_and_correction)

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Aka: CosmicBob

Microcontrolled
07-25-2009, 03:53 AM
I am no longer posting any more on this tread.

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Toys are microcontroled.
Robots are microcontroled.
I am microcontroled.


If it's not Parallax then don't even bother. :-)
·

Mini-Din/PS2 connectors are for sale! 5 for $1! PM me if you wish to make an order.
Cheap·shipping unless specified!··········150 left!!··

mallred
07-28-2009, 03:48 AM
I am so glad we all became fast friends after some of those unfortunate comments on both sides. ;)

I do not think any of you are unintelligent. I spoke in anger.

We have a following of very interested people who have bought our boards and are following this project of Dr. Jim's every step of the way. Parallax is a primary beneficiary of our efforts and that is on purpose. They have been very good to us from the start.

I get on this forum far more than Dr. Gouge. I have admitted freely that it is he who is the technical master. I do not pretend to know a particle of what he knows in hardware, software, or theory. I have gleaned an understanding of the importance of his work and have tried to share that excitement with this forum.

I get it that you need proof. That is obvious. Dr. Jim is alluding to some of his technologies in our blog, but not conveying everything. His work is based on many patents, not just one. You will have to forgive his lack of response, as he has had technology stolen from him in the past.

Also, as we have explained, we are actively building the platform upon which his intelligence algorithms will reside. We have specific reasons for choosing the Parallax Propeller, so please accept that. If you like the propeller, you should be supportive and ecstatic about where he is taking this awesome microcontroller.

As I sit in the hospital with my wife gravely ill, I see the bigger picture in life. Please forgive my offences. Yours are already forgiven.

I will see if Dr. Jim can add some more meat to our blog videos in the near future.

Have a blessed day everyone.

Sincerely,

Mark Allred

Post Edited (mallred) : 7/27/2009 10:10:36 PM GMT

SRLM
07-28-2009, 04:29 AM
mallred said...
You will have to forgive his [Dr. Gouge] lack of response, as he has had technology stolen from him in the past.


Edit: this isn't meant to be as controversial as it sounds. What is the purpose of his research? Is it to get rich? Is it to make something new and innovative? Is it to make a name for himself? Science (and a few technology people) regularly share their cutting edge research in the form of journals, and the modern sciences are built on the regular exchange of ideas and criticisms. While it's not perfect and it's not the only system for advancement available, it does seem to work better than an isolationist policy.


mallred said...
As I sit in the hospital with my wife gravely ill, I see the bigger picture in life. Please forgive my offences. Yours are already forgiven.


My condolences.

mallred
07-28-2009, 05:05 AM
Thank you for your kind words about my wife. She was in the ER on Friday as well.

Dr. Gouge wants to encourage machine intelligence research with anyone interested in moving the science forward. He is selling this opportunity (boards, software, etc.) but wants to keep it affordable for anyone interested.

He is funding his ongoing research and a portion of his retirement with this project. For these reasons, we must charge something for the technology.

I'm sure that if Dr. Gouge were independently wealthy, much of this technology would be free. Circumstances do not allow for that at this time.

There is a growing following who are purely going on faith and purchasing from us. We continue our development because, 1. It Rocks, and 2. We have an obligation to our customers to deliver what we promised. So far, everything Dr. Gouge said he was going to accomplish, he has done. The proof is the growing list of products on our website. There is an element of faith in those purchasing from us at this very early stage, and we respect and admire their initiative. We will continue producing great technologies primarily for these early adopters, and then for the wider public as it becomes more accepted.

We encourage interested parties to get started. No sweat if you think it is too risky. We are confident that we will eventually win some of you round.

If I were not optimistic about our success, I would expect no one to follow us. But our optimism is high!

See you on the blog.

Mark

mallred
07-28-2009, 05:22 AM
As a P.S. to my previous post, Dr. Gouge prefers to work in isolation. If you read the July/August issue of Robot Magazine, you should get that impression. He talks about his feelings about the way innovation is achieved. There is a .PDF version of that article posted on our website.

Thanks,

Mark

Prettybird
07-28-2009, 06:09 AM
Just reading this thread for fun. I don't even get the magazine. A magazine is media. You get what you pay for sometimes. I am new to Parallax but not to technoligy. There is lots of technoligy online for free and this forum is great. Technoligy and politics don't mix.

mikediv
07-28-2009, 08:21 AM
Just my 02 cents, I did read the article and was very interested in the memory card but to be honest the price was just too high for me and the fact that some of the board was wire wrapped just made me feel it was not fully developed. But the biggest thing was I was interested in the "prop proto board" mod that I thought from reading the article would give my prop proto board the ability to run this very interesting software but I learned later this was not the case so the only reason I could see for this very expensive memory board and hardware mods was for this AI software ,, The article then stated that it would be made the "software" available for free for hobbyists to "pull it apart " but ·it would only be on a PC platform not the prop. I did email the company and asked these very questions but never received a reply. I have no intention of adding to the negative posts but it is bothersome that if someone or a business wants to offer a product and I have no objection to that especially since this is not my website but Parallaxes they should at least take the time to try and answer the questions being posted to them after all you did post your product right????? It would only make sense to answer potential customer’s questions regarding your offered product. I followed the posts from the start and did not think anyone was being “negative” or attacked anyone the questions they asked seemed legitimate to me…
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jazzed
07-28-2009, 09:49 AM
Mark, I do hope your wife will be fine. God bless you both.

mallred
07-28-2009, 01:02 PM
Thank you, jazzed. After two ERs in four days, the source of my wife's pain (other than myself ;) is still a mystery. Thanks for thinking about us.

Mark

Bill Henning
07-28-2009, 10:47 PM
Mark, I hope they find - and fix - whatever it is. I know how horrible it is when a loved one is in a pain - and how terrible waiting in a hospital is.

My thoughts are with you and your wife.

Bill


mallred said...
Thank you, jazzed. After two ERs in four days, the source of my wife's pain (other than myself ;) is still a mystery. Thanks for thinking about us.

Mark

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mallred
07-29-2009, 06:17 AM
Thanks Bill.· We are taking one day at a time right now.· It may end up resolving itself.