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aeading
01-12-2009, 10:12 PM
Hi
I would like to overlay GPS coordinates onto a composite video signal say at the bottom of the video feed. The GPS data would be captured via RS232 then parsed out then overlayed. I have achieved this using 3rd party overlay IC from decade engineering (BOB Card) but this unit runs in at a high cost is the video overlay possible ?
Thanks

Mike Green
01-12-2009, 10:29 PM
Have a look at Hitt Consulting's Propeller-based video overlay device (www.hittconsulting.com/hcosd.htm (http://www.hittconsulting.com/hcosd.htm)). The design and code is available if you want to make your own or you can buy the finished product from him. It's designed for connecting to a logic level serial GPS output.

The main thing you need from his design is the sync separator and the video DAC.

Post Edited (Mike Green) : 1/12/2009 3:35:04 PM GMT

Bean
01-12-2009, 10:57 PM
Mike is correct. You are free to use my design for you own use, I encourage it.

If you are making a commercial product that you are selling, I charge a $5.00 per unit license fee if you use a significant portion of my design.

Bean.

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·The next time you need a hero don't look up in the sky...Look in the mirror.


·

shanghai_fool
01-13-2009, 05:30 AM
You could also use a MAX7456 if you can find one. SPI input. Works well with Propeller.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
01-13-2009, 05:43 AM
DigiKey has the Maxim part, but it's double the price of a Propeller! If it could genlock onto the colorburst and do a color overlay, it might be worth the extra money. But it can't: it's just black and white.

-Phil

shanghai_fool
01-13-2009, 05:59 AM
I also don't like the built-in character addresses but is the simplest solution I have found so far. Let me know if you find something else. I was able to reprogram most of the ASCII characters to correct addresses but it still leaves a lot to be desired. Especially color. I am sure there are chips available as they are used in most video recorders for menus but I haven't found any info on them.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
01-13-2009, 06:28 AM
Overlay chips used to be available in abundance from the likes of Philips, Rohm, and NEC, for example. Most did color and were relatively inexpensive. But they needed a lot of external parts to work, such as a sync separator, DC restorer, analog switches, and a line driver. Why they're not still around, I don't know. It may be because the overlay functions got built into the general video processing chips as TV, VCR, and DVD electronics became integrated on a larger scale.

One of my overarching goals, since the day I started working with the Propeller, has been to genlock its chroma generator to incoming colorbursts and do a color overlay. I'm sure it's possible, but I'm not sure how just yet.

-Phil

shanghai_fool
01-13-2009, 06:46 AM
Well, video is entering a new world order now as NTSC is going the way of Betamax, etc. Everything now is HD. No more analog video. I don't know if I will be around long enough for it to filter down to surveilance and general/micro cameras. I'm hoping there will be OSD chips for HD as well.

You are correct as most companies are integrating so many functions into single specs of silicon, it may not be available as a separate device.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
01-13-2009, 06:54 AM
shanghai_fool said...
Well, video is entering a new world order now as NTSC is going the way of Betamax, etc. Everything now is HD. No more analog video.

That's definitely not the case. NTSC is alive and well in the CCTV market and will be for many years to come. It's only broadcast analog video that's soon to disappear.

-Phil

shanghai_fool
01-13-2009, 07:24 AM
It will filter down quicker than you may think.I imagine all those CCTV manufacturers are now thinking "How can we resell everything we have already sold?" By upgrading to HD, of course.

Somebody must have it, otherwise, how can the TV shows zoom in to a 6 pixel car tag and read the ID? Or better yet, a windshield sticker from 100' that I can barely read at 2 feet. :)

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
01-13-2009, 07:35 AM
The price of the HD stuff will have to come down to the sub-$10 NTSC board camera level before we see NTSC begin to disappear. That won't happen any time soon.

-Phil

shanghai_fool
01-13-2009, 07:51 AM
Soon is a relative term. 6 years ago, I bought a JVC HD-1 for $4000, now HD Cams are a couple hundred. I also remember paying $400 (in 1975 dollars) for an 8080. So, the $10 HD cam will probably be $20 then. But then again, soon is never soon enough.

Imagine what the Propeller would have been worth a decade ago?

BradC
01-13-2009, 09:01 AM
shanghai_fool said...
It will filter down quicker than you may think.I imagine all those CCTV manufacturers are now thinking "How can we resell everything we have already sold?" By upgrading to HD, of course.

Somebody must have it, otherwise, how can the TV shows zoom in to a 6 pixel car tag and read the ID? Or better yet, a windshield sticker from 100' that I can barely read at 2 feet. :)


There are already some very nice (multi) megapixel digital CCTV cameras around, and the picture quality is *superb*. The biggest issue there is simply the amount of bandwidth required to compress, transport and record this stuff. The other issue is image latency. An analogue camera switched by an analogue matrix and into an analogue monitor has an unnoticable latency. Digital is another story entirely with end to end latencies exceeding 1/4 second on some stuff, and worse on cheaper gear. That is a big annoyance when you are operating a movable camera.

I played with a nice camera/lens combo recently that allowed me to read the manufacturers data nameplate off a crane over 3km away.

... sorry to drift off topic :)

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Cardinal Fang! Fetch the comfy chair.

Bean
01-13-2009, 09:37 AM
I have used the MAX7456, it works okay. But it is expensive and uses ALOT of power.
There was rumors about a color version. But I've never seen anything about it.

Bean.

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·The next time you need a hero don't look up in the sky...Look in the mirror.


·

shanghai_fool
01-13-2009, 10:20 AM
I think it may be do-able with the prop. Just need to sync external video to VGA driver. Drive output pin high for white, low for black and change to input (tri-state) to pass video. It would take a better engineer than me though.

shanghai_fool
01-13-2009, 09:44 PM
The guy that did the Viewport has done some amazing video stuff with the prop. He takes video in thru an ADC and processes it so if he can do that, just getting the sync shouldn't be too hard. Take a look at his demos and tutorials.
I'm beginning to think anything is possible with the prop.

Javalin
01-13-2009, 10:48 PM
>I'm beginning to think anything is possible with the prop.
ditto.

I've done a black and white overlay but the long term goal when I have time is colour.

Phil - can you expand on the colour burst bit? I've read various things previously and never really sussed it. Surely it cannot be that hard?

James

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
01-14-2009, 12:11 AM
James,

The 3.579545 MHz colorburst at the beginning of each line of NTSC video provides a phase reference against which chroma information within the line is measured. In normal Propeller video output, the Propeller provides both the colorburst and the phased chroma modulation within each line that produce the various colors. This is done with an internal x16 chroma clock. In an overlay situation, the incoming video stream provides the color bursts, and any colored graphics that the overlay sytem produces have to be phase referenced to the incoming colorburst. What makes this hard with the Propeller is that there's no direct access to the phase of its chroma clock; but, in order to lock onto the incoming colorbursts, this phase has to be adjusted from the program. Otherwise the colors it produces will not only vary from the colors specified but may also drift, producing a rainbow effect rather than solid colors.

-Phil

Blue Sky
01-14-2009, 04:51 AM
I'd love to have a color OSD. Two actually, one for each eye!
I was excited about the MC1378 RGB-composite overlay chip until I looked at the data sheets.
Many arcane and unabtainable coils & such.
You can find it here under Analogue Video Encoders: http://icc.skku.ac.kr/~won/electro/videochips.html
-Dave

Blue Sky
01-14-2009, 07:44 AM
That link's a gonner.
Try this one.
http://radnet.ej.am/Downloads/Datasheet/Linear/mc1378rev0f.pdf

Javalin
01-14-2009, 04:00 PM
Phil,

Thanks for that. I assume youd need to read the colour burst part of the line via an ADC to get the phase information?

James

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
01-14-2009, 04:13 PM
James,

A comparator would probably work if you set the threshold right. The bigger challenge is matching the phase with the Propeller's chroma clock.

-Phil

GreyBox Tim
01-15-2009, 01:04 PM
Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) said...

shanghai_fool said...
Well, video is entering a new world order now as NTSC is going the way of Betamax, etc. Everything now is HD. No more analog video.

That's definitely not the case. NTSC is alive and well in the CCTV market and will be for many years to come. It's only broadcast analog video that's soon to disappear.

-Phil
From what I've seen, the H.264 compressed digital video is taking over all of the new stuff for systems with more than 16 cameras - basically anything larger than a small convenience store (and even those are starting to go digital).· Most of the "cheap" NTSC stuff I see out there is "garbage" (QCIF -·and at the price, what else would one expect), any reasonable quality will still set you back $60+US - but many of those have Bt.656 parallel digital line that you can hack on the camera PCB (so you can even get around the analog thing if you are so inclined).

All of the digital HD for CCTV cameras are basically going H.264/MJPEG unless it's part of a video-conference system.· The infrastructure is easier for installers when the camera is POE-100b-T (any "idiot" these days·can run a Cat-5, and terminate the ends properly).· The most complicated parts are starting to be the cameras - while you don't need a "quad" or a "mux" any more - just a desktop computer running XP with suffucient storage space and IE 6 or IE 7 (plus a switch with POE injection).

I just picked up a 5MP H.264 for less than $900US - Sweet deal, multiple users can log into the feed simultaneously, at diferent bit-rates and resolutions (and even H.264 or MJPEG depending on the availability of Java in the browser), the camera pushes the stream to a folder on a "server" (can be any machine with a shared drive...).


The big deal about network cameras is the infrastructure savings.· If you have·64 cameras in one building, but the security office is in another, it used to mean running 64 high-quality coax to the other building, or running a fiber-mux ($$$$$$).· With a network video system, you can piggy-back an existing corporate network for the bandwidth (with a VPN), or you can use another set of fiber pairs to a standard switch in the other building (keeps the part-numbers down, allows the on-site IT staff to support the CCTV system).· Many networks also feautre fail-over support so that if the inter-building fiber was damaged, an alternate route can be negotiated for un-interrupted CCTV service (whereas with coax, if one gets cut, that camera is down until the a new cable is pulled, or it's re-routed to a spare coax in the existing conduit - assuming the installer had the foresight to pull some...).

You also don't need to run: power, control, video (all can be contained in the same Cat-5).

-Tim

P.S. Oh yeah, on-topic: I'd use a dedicated sync extractor (like a National LMH1980 - which can be had from Digikey for ~$5US), and a video mux IC with an Parallax-SX to do the overlay on Composite video...· Probably your cheapest bet.· Otherwise, if you want a good quality overlay, you have to decode and re-encode the video with dedicated ICs so that the micro can have access to the digital form of the video signal data (much easier to sync to and correctly modify for color...). Take a look at the Analog Device ADV7180 and ADV7391 decoder/encoders (respectively), cheap, small, not very many pins, and the video can be bussed with BT.656 muxed parallel data at 27MHz for NTSC color 480i. -T

Post Edited (GreyBox Tim) : 1/15/2009 6:27:55 AM GMT

propwell
06-29-2009, 05:42 PM
I'm just trying to build my own overlay-circuit, but i can't really handle it.
Attached is my schematics, how i built it, but it doesn't work! The screen just shows nothing!

I'm not shure about the connection to the prop, because in the OSD-Files-Schematics, there is always Pin 0,1 and 2 showed!
Can someone give me a short help? Is there maybe a version of the OSD-Program which doesn't use an GPS- or something-else-data, just to output some text?

Thanks for your help!

Propwell

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
06-30-2009, 09:18 AM
It's not enough to read just the VSYNC output. You also need HSYNC or — if you only want one input — CSYNC, from which you can extract both via programming.

-Phil

propwell
06-30-2009, 05:45 PM
thanks Phil, but i thought my way was the way it was built on the Hitt-Consulting-schematic? Doesn't it work like this?

computer guy
06-30-2009, 08:08 PM
propwell said...
thanks Phil, but i thought my way was the way it was built on the Hitt-Consulting-schematic? Doesn't it work like this?


In the Hitt Consulting schematic the prop is connected to CSYNC via a 1k resistor. You have the prop connected to VSYNC via a 1k resistor


Hope this helps

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Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip (http://robot.tmcp.com.au/buildingblock) A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.

Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE (http://robot.tmcp.com.au/buildingblock/projects/guitar.htm)

propwell
07-02-2009, 04:11 PM
thanks for your help, computer guy, but i connected now the CSync-Pin instead of the VSync-Pin but the monitor still is black.
I've got some questions:
1. In the HITT_Video_Overlay_012.spin the schematics show Pin 0-3 used, but in the schematics.pdf, there are the Pins 16-19 and 22 used! Could that be the problem?
2. How does the program behave when there is no input-video-signal?
3. I use the Overlay_test_Display.spin for testing, because it has no GPS and other stuff in it. Is there a chance to change it to PAL?

Thank you alls!

propwell
07-02-2009, 04:12 PM
attached, the program i use for testing!

Ole Man Earl
07-03-2009, 01:11 AM
Works just fine on my system. Pin0 is the vert sync input from the lm1881 sync seperator chip and pin 1 is the overlayed video out.
Earl

PS I used your program with no modifications.

propwell
07-03-2009, 01:31 PM
Hey Earl, thanks for testing. But i'm confused about the pins! Do i really have to connect it to Pin0 and 1 on the Propeller? Because of the HITT-Schematics (where it's connected to 26...) i've connected the Pins 0-4 to another device already!

Seems to not be that far away! Thank you very much!

:edit: ah and earl, could please describe me how the monitor looks when there's no input-signal?

Post Edited (propwell) : 7/3/2009 6:41:20 AM GMT

Timmoore
07-03-2009, 01:59 PM
Looking at the driver on hitt and the overlay driver in your test zip file they have different pins configured. The driver in the test zip file assumes pin 0, 1, etc. The one on hitts website uses different pins, you want make sure your hardware matches the code.

propwell
07-03-2009, 02:15 PM
thanks for your help! But where are they defined in the code? I can't find the lines! Or is it at the DAT-Part OverlayASM?



OverlayASM MOV _screenAddr, par
MOV _syncPinMask, #1
MOV _videoPinMask, #2
MOV -genPinMask, #4



that's the one from my zip-file! How can i read it from these lines which pins that are? #1=0, #2=1, and #4=2 :?

And i've got the HITT_Video_Overlay_018, but there is nothing like that!
Ok. My hardware is connected like that, so i assume that my Test-Zip wouldn't work for me! Can i redefine the Pins in my Test-File?

Man i'm so confused :S In the attachment is the schematics how i exactly have it connected, now i'm only looking for a piece of code that i could use, without all this GPS-Stuff. I'm never sure if there could not probably be an error in this part of code!

Thanks to you all!

Timmoore
07-03-2009, 02:40 PM
There is a couple of places I can see in the driver




OverlayAsm MOV _screenAddr,par ' Get address of screen memory
MOV _syncPinMask,#1 ' Sync is on pin P0
MOV _videoPinMask,#2 ' Output is on pin P1
MOV _genPinMask,#4 ' Output is on pin P2

' Setup cnta to use video hardware
MOVI ctra,#%000001_111 ' Video PLL x16
MOV frqa,VideoFreq ' Set dot clock to 5.818182 MHz

' Setup VSU (initially off)
MOVI vcfg,#%0_00_0_0_0_000 ' Generation off
MOVS vcfg,#%0000_0010 ' Use only pin 1 for output
MOVD vcfg,#0 ' Use pin group 0



The 1st you found, the 3 lines setting the masks, 1, 2, 4 which are pins 0,1,2
The 2nd is the last 2 lines above which is setting the video config - the last line is saying a pin group - which is 0-7,8-15,16-23,24-31, the 2nd to last line is giving the pin mask within the group, so in the above code group 0 (0-7), then pin 1 within the group.

propwell
07-03-2009, 02:52 PM
oh yeah, i got it! Is that all i have to change for getting my test-zip working?



OverlayAsm MOV _screenAddr,par ' Get address of screen memory
MOV _syncPinMask,#1 ' Sync is on pin P0
MOV _videoPinMask,#2 ' Output is on pin P1
MOV _genPinMask,#4 ' Output is on pin P2

' Setup cnta to use video hardware
MOVI ctra,#%000001_111 ' Video PLL x16
MOV frqa,VideoFreq ' Set dot clock to 5.818182 MHz

' Setup VSU (initially off)
MOVI vcfg,#%0_00_0_0_0_000 ' Generation off
MOVS vcfg,#%0000_0010 ' Use only pin 1 for output
MOVD vcfg,#4 ' Use pin group 0


Ok so for my schematics, i use pin group 2 (16-29), but which pin is the one for the line


MOVS vcfg,#%0000_0010 ' Use only pin 1 for output


?

and how about these lines. I thin _syncPinMask should be Pin22, which is #4194304 am i right? Looks a bit stupid.
And what are these other masks? Actuallly, i've got something like 4 output-pins (16-19).


MOV _syncPinMask,#1 ' Sync is on pin P0
MOV _videoPinMask,#2 ' Output is on pin P1
MOV _genPinMask,#4 ' Output is on pin P2



thanks for your help timmoore, but i'm not yet getting the point !

Timmoore
07-04-2009, 12:19 AM
There is the equalivalent in the other driver but its done differently
This is the vcfg config



MOVI vcfg,#%0_00_0_0_0_000 ' Generation off
MOVS vcfg,#%0000_1100 ' Use pin P18,P19 (2&3 of group 2) for output
MOVD vcfg,#2 ' Use pin group 2 (P16-P23)



Using pins 16 and above, the bit mask will be greater than $1ff so it can't be done as an argument to the pasm instruction, so they are defined in variables at the end.



_syncPinMask LONG %0000_0000_1000_0000_0000_0000_0000_0000 ' Sync output from EL1883 IC P23 (22)
_videoPinMask LONG %0000_0000_0000_1100_0000_0000_0000_0000 ' Video output from propeller (~470Ohm) P18,P196yhn 2
_videoSinkPin LONG %0000_0000_0000_0100_0000_0000_0000_0000 ' Video Sink (darken) pin mask P18
_genPinsMask LONG %0000_0000_0000_0011_0000_0000_0000_0000 ' Mask for both generation pins P16,P17
_genPinSyncMask LONG %0000_0000_0000_0010_0000_0000_0000_0000 ' Mask for generation sync pin P17



So there isn't the instructions needed to set the variables, since they are set in the source file.
Is there a reason why you couldn't use the driver from terry hitt rather than trying to modify the other driver? The trouble I see is the 2 drivers you different wiring. So to use the driver you are currently using, yo either need to change the wiring or work out the changes to map to the wiring you have. The schematic you show is correct for the version 18 driver but the driver in you zip file is version 12 which has a different schematic at the top.
I think you need to make sure the schematic and driver match.

Ole Man Earl
07-04-2009, 01:05 AM
First, you need video input to generate a vertical sync pulse from the lm1881 (lm1883) into p0 of the prop in my case. The video in goes to pin 2 on the ln1881 via a .1 mfd cap used to generate the vertical sync pulse out on pin 1 of the lm1881 who's output goes to p0 of the prop.

I have my video in/out connected together directly.
The .1 mfd cap goes from this in/out connection to pin 2 on the lm1881 (or 1883)
Pin 1 of the lm1881 to P0 of the prop via a 1k series resister unless you use the lm1883 a 3v part, then connect directly
Then I have a 470 ohm resister from P1 of the prop to the in/out video connector.

I use "HITT_Video_Overlay_012" for the overlay video on my autopilot.
I don't think I modified it buy just in case, here is the one I use

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)
07-04-2009, 02:08 AM
Hey Earl,

Just to clarify: pin 1 of the LM1881 is the composite sync (CSYNC) output and is, in fact, the correct pin to use. I think there was some confusion in earlier posts about which sync output to feed the Prop. While it may be possible to use the vertical sync (VSYNC, pin 3), one would probably begin to lose line synchronnization before the field ended and the next VSYNC came along.

-Phil

propwell
07-06-2009, 04:05 PM
Hey Phil, Earl and Timmoore,

thank you very much for your help! Today i tried to adapt the Version 12 (Pins 0-4) to the wiring of version 18 (16,17,18,19,23.. which i use).
My video-signal (PAL from cam) is shown very good, so that part works ;) But there's still no overlay!
In the attachment is the program i adapted.

I'm not sure about the following lines:


OverlayAsm MOV _screenAddr,par ' Get address of screen memory
MOV _syncPinMask,#%1000_0000 ' Sync is on pin P23
MOV _videoPinMask,#%0000_0100 ' Output is on pin P18
MOV _genPinMask,#%0000_1000 ' Output is on pin P19


i know that #%1000_0000 is not 23, but i'm not able to change it to 23, because the error Timmoore mentioned.
So there is this part of code at the end of my file:


_syncPinMask LONG %0000_0000_1000_0000_0000_0000_0000_0000 ' Sync output from EL1883 IC
_videoPinMask LONG %0000_0000_0000_1100_0000_0000_0000_0000 ' Video output from propeller (~470Ohm)
_genPinMask LONG %0000_0000_0000_0010_0000_0000_0000_0000 ' Sync gen output from propeller (~1K)


I adapted the Pins, but am not sure if this is right. And also: do i have to remove the top-instruction?!? (think it's twice then?)
also, in Version18, there are the following lines:


_videoSinkPin LONG %0000_0000_0000_0100_0000_0000_0000_0000 ' Video Sink (darken) pin mask P18
_genPinsMask LONG %0000_0000_0000_0011_0000_0000_0000_0000 ' Mask for both generation pins P16,P17
_genPinSyncMask LONG %0000_0000_0000_0010_0000_0000_0000_0000 ' Mask for generation sync pin P17


They don't appear in the Version12!

I'm very confused about which parts of the drivers i have to use! But i feel like being close to the solution, thanks to you!

Thank you very much!!

Timmoore
07-07-2009, 12:41 AM
You want to remove the mov_syncPinMask,.. lines. The variable is initialized to the value you have at the end of the file. The mov instruction is overwriting this value which isn't what you want. Just deleting the line means the variable is set to the value you need. Try commenting out the 3 mov ...Mask,... lines.

Tharkun
07-07-2009, 02:20 AM
propwell said...


My video-signal (PAL from cam) is shown very good, so that part works ;) But there's still no overlay!



Hi propwell,

i think the HITToverlay-version 1.2 doesn't run with PAL, it's only for NTSC, try using HITT_Video_Overlay_017(018).spin
(or switch you CAM to NTSC output)

here is a good example with HITT_Video_Overlay_017.spin and source:

http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=25&m=202781&g=263040#m263040

regards from Germany

propwell
07-07-2009, 04:04 AM
@Timmoore: thanks, do you think this could be the problem?

@tharkun: hm well, changig to NTSC doesn't work for me, what a petty. Is it possible to change the 017 or 018 to PAL or why do you propose that? In your posted link it is also an NTSC-Cam used!

I'd be glad to change my existing file to PAL and to "working" ;)

Thank you everybody,
Max

propwell
07-15-2009, 12:56 AM
hey together,

i now used the programcode of the Propeller_On_Screen_Drone, the HITT-Version 17.
I can find there several lines with PAL written in it:



_palModeAddr RES 1 ' Address of PAL_Mode variable
_palModeValue RES 1 ' Hold value in PAL_Mode variable 0=NTSC; 1=PAL generation



in the code there are many points where the palModeValue appears, but i don't know where to change the PAL_Mode variable to 1, instead of 0?

Can please someone help me?

Thank you all very much!

:edit: i added the whole project in the attachment. I tried to delete everything that hasn't anything to do with the Overlay ( Like the GPS and the accerometer...)
When i let it run, i get a flickering white line running repeatently from top to bottom, taking about 1,5 seconds. the source-video seems to be ok!
man, i feel to be so close, but i can't find where i have to switch it to PAL!

Post Edited (propwell) : 7/15/2009 10:59:06 AM GMT

shanghai_fool
01-01-2012, 08:42 AM
Hey,

It been a long time since I was on here but
http://orzparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28&products_id=1243&gclid=CLutrfHCrq0CFQVvhwod_0WqlA
has the MAX7456 listed for $7.20 now.
I'm still looking for an easy to use driver.
I'm building a dual prop system and just need to offload the video. The props have enough to do.
PS. I measured 85ma current draw.